finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
glitchrock-buddha
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:02 am

I gotta say, with the addition of racks and macros, bigwig looks to have everything I'd want. Judging by videos lately, I'm betting push will be scripted in no time to do all the same stuff. It was even me ruined that bigwigs browser could be controlled by scripts. I'll probably end up switching eventually but I'll happily use live 9 in the meantime.
Professional Shark Jumper.

Blendton
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

Post by Blendton » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:14 am

glitchrock-buddha wrote:I gotta say, with the addition of racks and macros, bigwig looks to have everything I'd want. Judging by videos lately, I'm betting push will be scripted in no time to do all the same stuff. It was even me ruined that bigwigs browser could be controlled by scripts. I'll probably end up switching eventually but I'll happily use live 9 in the meantime.
Abketon says anything on bitwig, logical, a "fake" but in fact real company boarded by executives so they managed to be independant, with al the businesss linked like "hey, Live plz giv >>>>> done". And Live won't ask something in return because it's therefore a pure statement that bitwig WON'T COMPETE live. I'll have both, they compmement each other.

Please search for something to kill some DAW WARS inducers.

AND WTF RETURN BACK ?TO LIVE IF ANY YOU ARE A MUSICIAN? AND TO THE JOB !

PLEASE ! :$
Antoine, aka Blendton.

OS : Windows 8 Professional with Media Center - x64
Ableton Live 9 Suite (64-bit) & Ableton Suite 8 + Max for Live (32-bit)
Toshiba Qosmio F750 + lenticular glasses-free 3D
i7 2670QM 2,20GHz - 2x4GB DDR3-1333 - 5400rpm HDD

friend_kami
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

Post by friend_kami » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:24 am

JuanSOLO wrote:just this little gif gary posted makes me think bitwig is being created by guys who actually used Live and were always trying to get the most out of it's workflow.

Some of the Abes employee responses during beta testing was what I have expected from them over the years
"why would you want to do that?"
"how would that be useful?"
"try this (sub par) workaround"
"have you seen this M4L device?" (which has nothing to do with requested feature)

:roll:
this. fucking THIS.
the responses from the officials was quite frankly the worst responses i've seen from a company getting feedback on a product. like the whole browser + meta-tagging debacle and the official response that "the artists i work with and have talked with doesn't need a tagging solution for the browser, thus: you don't need it." or how the official stance on the tagging system is to keep an organized folder structure (good luck managing to survive without one with 1tb of samples such as thousands of field recordings in the same location etc) and all is fine and it's just the users who are stupid.

wtf. if i could somehow revert ever buying live and actually supporting Ableton i would.
you had your chance and you fucking blew it, and of course you also released a product that was (again) not finished and not polished enough for RTM.

now, my live is an effects processor and that's it. the rest is studio one (which btw kicks live's A S S when it comes to workflow. OH MY GOD. just saying..)m and i assume that i will phase that out pretty soon to.

in short: you had 3 years and you released shit and you still have the nerve to charge an outrageous upgrade price.

friend_kami
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Joined: Mon May 29, 2006 10:10 pm

Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

Post by friend_kami » Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:30 am

agent314 wrote:I am a huge fan of Ableton, but I'm still eager to see what Bitwig's doing.
I'm not expecting huge things from a 1.0 release though

There was this band Raq, who was intensely influenced by Phish and the Disco Biscuits, to the point of copying some of their schtick (vocal jams, obscure Zappa covers, inverted song structures, etc.)

They were objectively better than both bands - better vocals, better instrumentalists, more precise players, more complicated arrangements, etc. - but they still just didn't have that spark of authenticity and self-inspired fire-in-the-belly that comes with a band doing their own thing

That's kind of how I expect Bitwig to be, at least at first - it's taking everything that Ableton has already done and adding the improvements that Ableton hasn't/won't, but it doesn't have the same originality spark/inspiration that really makes it shine.

Still, looking forward to seeing how it all comes together, and am eager to get my hands on it
so basically you're saying that all other daws sucks, because all of them are linear timeline based, and thus can't be originsl because they all follow the same "standard"?
seriously. google any daw and take a screenshot. keep doing that until you have found most daws out there. look at how similar they all are. yeah, must be something wrong with that picture hm.
i assume all trackers sucks aswell then,except the very fist one, since they all follow the same concept.


sorry man, but that argument is horrible.

outsidesys
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

Post by outsidesys » Fri Mar 22, 2013 4:07 am

friend_kami wrote:now, my live is an effects processor and that's it. the rest is studio one...
This sounds interesting. What's your workflow like when doing this? Are you using Live as a Rewire master?

agent314
Posts: 1447
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 3:07 am

Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

Post by agent314 » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:31 am

so basically you're saying that all other daws sucks, because all of them are linear timeline based, and thus can't be originsl because they all follow the same "standard"?
Who the fuck even mentioned session view except you so you could come up with some bullshit strawman to rage at?

I'm just saying Bitwig doesn't look original. Logic is original and does its own thing. Studio One is original and does its own thing. Bitwig is unabashedly taking Ableton's thing and tweaking it.

Painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa doesn't make you da Vinci, even if it's the best damn mustache you ever saw

heavensdaw
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

Post by heavensdaw » Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:49 am

friend_kami wrote:
JuanSOLO wrote:just this little gif gary posted makes me think bitwig is being created by guys who actually used Live and were always trying to get the most out of it's workflow.

Some of the Abes employee responses during beta testing was what I have expected from them over the years
"why would you want to do that?"
"how would that be useful?"
"try this (sub par) workaround"
"have you seen this M4L device?" (which has nothing to do with requested feature)

:roll:
this. fucking THIS.
the responses from the officials was quite frankly the worst responses i've seen from a company getting feedback on a product. like the whole browser + meta-tagging debacle and the official response that "the artists i work with and have talked with doesn't need a tagging solution for the browser, thus: you don't need it." or how the official stance on the tagging system is to keep an organized folder structure (good luck managing to survive without one with 1tb of samples such as thousands of field recordings in the same location etc) and all is fine and it's just the users who are stupid.

wtf. if i could somehow revert ever buying live and actually supporting Ableton i would.
you had your chance and you fucking blew it, and of course you also released a product that was (again) not finished and not polished enough for RTM.

now, my live is an effects processor and that's it. the rest is studio one (which btw kicks live's A S S when it comes to workflow. OH MY GOD. just saying..)m and i assume that i will phase that out pretty soon to.

in short: you had 3 years and you released shit and you still have the nerve to charge an outrageous upgrade price.
Can't help but agree... Maybe that's why new users are the better looked after! :roll:

Hd

dnbhallifax
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:13 pm

Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

Post by dnbhallifax » Fri Mar 22, 2013 10:28 am

heavensdaw wrote:
friend_kami wrote:
JuanSOLO wrote:just this little gif gary posted makes me think bitwig is being created by guys who actually used Live and were always trying to get the most out of it's workflow.

Some of the Abes employee responses during beta testing was what I have expected from them over the years
"why would you want to do that?"
"how would that be useful?"
"try this (sub par) workaround"
"have you seen this M4L device?" (which has nothing to do with requested feature)

:roll:
this. fucking THIS.
the responses from the officials was quite frankly the worst responses i've seen from a company getting feedback on a product. like the whole browser + meta-tagging debacle and the official response that "the artists i work with and have talked with doesn't need a tagging solution for the browser, thus: you don't need it." or how the official stance on the tagging system is to keep an organized folder structure (good luck managing to survive without one with 1tb of samples such as thousands of field recordings in the same location etc) and all is fine and it's just the users who are stupid.

wtf. if i could somehow revert ever buying live and actually supporting Ableton i would.
you had your chance and you fucking blew it, and of course you also released a product that was (again) not finished and not polished enough for RTM.

now, my live is an effects processor and that's it. the rest is studio one (which btw kicks live's A S S when it comes to workflow. OH MY GOD. just saying..)m and i assume that i will phase that out pretty soon to.

in short: you had 3 years and you released shit and you still have the nerve to charge an outrageous upgrade price.
Can't help but agree... Maybe that's why new users are the better looked after! :roll:

Hd
I basically agree with you here...

To say Live 9 was a letdown would be a monumental f-ing understatement.
(So, if, as the online lore suggests - that Bitwig is being built by ex-Ableton programmers - I'm guessing that some pretty important Live programmers jumped ship, and over 2 years ago - seeing as Bitwig has been in development for a while... then that would explain why 3.5 years of Live 9 development amounted to essentially no innovation. I mean The Glue? licensed code fro Cytomic. Audio to Midi? Melodyne meets Audioscore. Other than that what do you have, just a bunch of gui enhancements and a few extra hotkeys that have been long overdo. I'd be fired if I worked that slowly.)

To me, I see Ableton finally starting to make that shift in its' business strategy lots of companies do where it becomes about "the brand, and the lifestyle" and innovation goes out the fucking window - which put them there in the 1st place.
Live versions 1-8 were basically about innovating a new way to look at old paradigms of the DAW. And they did, and that put them right in the ring with all the other companies really quickly... Live 9, literally NOTHING innovative.

Live 9 - and the introduction of this SHHHHIIIIIITTTY NEW WEBSITE for example (along with killing help exchange and starting "answers") looks like it's all about selling a lifestyle now. There's still lots more room left to innovate, but they probably now answer to some board of trustees calling all the shots on where product development is going and no one's allowed to actually develop anything innovative, because they're blowing smoke up each other's asses about how to "improve the brand", or something gay like that. It looks like they've hit the point where it becomes a brand and a numbers game. (Which doesn't have to happen - NI is really smart about their brand, but they also keep putting out awesome shit!)

I'm rambling, but basically considering the time it took them to put this P.O.S. out, it doesn't look good for where I expected Live to go... I welcome Bitwig for taking Live's concept and actually implementing the kinds of enhancements people have been asking for. If nothing else Live will now have some actual DIRECT competition. Competition much closer than any other DAW, if they do it right. That might be the one thing that could actually kick force some new features that are way overdo. IF Bitwig does well, (which I think they will if they get it out this year) I really do think they'll actually start to have a big impact on how Ableton has to do things.

For now I see Live starting to become stale. It's ridiculous what they put out on that time table they did. (Which don't forget is way slower than Bitwig - considering Ableton only had to build on top of what was already there.)

What's next for Ableton? An Ableton audio interface? Got one already, no thanks... Or how about Live 9 Mobile edition - coming to an Ipad and Iphone near you.
KILL ME NOW.

Ableton, YOU'RE FIRED :lol:

(And Kudos on Studio One - it's awesome. It's getting a lot more of my hours these days than Live... And the customizable browser KILLS Live 9's browser!) :wink:

Szuumm
Posts: 209
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

Post by Szuumm » Fri Mar 22, 2013 11:03 am

dnbhallifax wrote:An Ableton audio interface? Got one already
Where did you get an Ableton audio interface? I'd like to check that out.

simpli.cissimus
Posts: 518
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:33 pm

Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

Post by simpli.cissimus » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:11 pm

Bitwig will be the greatest thing after 2.0 release.

Imagine how many people will use the modular part of it,
twaek it and come up with great synth and effects for Bitwig.
I see a great community coming ahead, sharing all the cool stuff.
Just like the Reaktor user community...
Thousands of effects and synth to expect !

MAX just can't compete with this !
Why ? MAX is to complicated !
MAX is also CPU hungry !

The modular way Bitwig is build from ground up is the real innovation
that will last decades and all at CPU friendly level.
That idea itself shows where the creativity of Live developers went !!!

The new from ground up programmed software of Bitwig
is up to date and uses the latest technology to make use of today's processors.
Live's software isn't competitive in that way and full of bugs.
I can run the same amount of VST's in StudioOne at half CPU !

All I've seen so far from Bitwig is just amazing,
and I'm sure many people here will be hard core Bitwig users in a year from now,
who can't wait to get their hands on the internal modularity.

I hope Bitwig will make it rock stable from the start and
rather take their time, then having a bug fest.
...but anyways...
I will buy Bitwig from the start !

See you all at Bitwig, latest after 2.0, when you all want to go "Modular Mad"

I didn't buy Live 9 and never will again...
No! I'll never use the Push-App Live 9 !!!

Matt_Quinn
Posts: 517
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

Post by Matt_Quinn » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:23 pm

H20nly wrote:
Matt_Quinn wrote:. Going to see them at Red Rocks in about a month actually.
awesome venue!

where you at Matt?

It sure is, will be my 4th trip there, never gets old. :)

I live just north of Boston MA, flying out to CO for the shows.
the_planet wrote:Trap music is not supported in the current version.

heavensdaw
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Location: inbetween the inbetween

Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

Post by heavensdaw » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:37 pm

I didn't (want) to see it.. I really didn't.. But somehow this Live 9 (imo) bullshite just smashed my blinkers..

Before 8)
After 8O
Now :D

Thanks Abes you owed me one!

Hd

fishmonkey
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

Post by fishmonkey » Fri Mar 22, 2013 12:51 pm

simpli.cissimus wrote: I hope Bitwig will make it rock stable from the start and
rather take their time, then having a bug fest.
i have no doubt that there will be a mighty festival of bugs.

Timbeaux
Posts: 754
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

Post by Timbeaux » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:32 pm

did i missed something? is bitwig released or what u talking about?

SpeedKing
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

Post by SpeedKing » Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:21 pm

Just to put in my two centavos, I look forward to Bitwig. As well, I'm also a huge Ableton fan and have bought Live 8 and Live 9 Suite.

I think people calling Ableton crap are idiots. They're honestly the Ableton forum equivalent of online news article commenters who, for most every negative news article from 2000-2008 commented about how it's all Bush's fault, or from 2008-present comment only that it's all Obama's fault. I think that somehow, at some point, it becomes a "my team" versus "your team" mentality, and that's where the insulting tone stems from.

Anyway, cheers to Bitwig. They took someone else's main ideas and it appears (!) that they might have improved on many of them. Awesome. Just because someone didn't innovate doesn't mean their product isn't great. Vivaldi and Handel didn't innovate within the confines of music theory or change any paradigms either, but it doesn't detract from their end products. You see where I'm going with this. And on the opposite hand, the anti-Ableton people just typically have a childish tone, so it's tough to really take many of them seriously. To the ones who speak like adults about PDC, and the other numerous issues, thank you. To those who insult their way into making their points heard, I hope you realize that other than within your own brain, your comments bear less weight and authority than those that are well thought out. And therefore people respect it less, and therefore pay attention to it less, and therefore your opinions have less potential to affect other people or to affect any actual change. So if your goal is to affect as much change as a whiny 4 year old in Walmart, then good job. If it's to get people to actually listen to you, it's a big fat fail.

I think not getting emotionally invested in software is the best idea here, is all I'm saying.

EDIT: Obviously I'm not saying that anyone who doesn't LOVE Ableton is childish, but I'm speaking more of the simpli.cissimus' of the world here.
Last edited by SpeedKing on Fri Mar 22, 2013 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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