finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta 'soon'...

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Nicknackerski
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta soon...

Post by Nicknackerski » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:09 pm

This thread has generated a post approx every 5 mins for the last four hours!

There seems to be a LOT of interest in bitwig.

(Me too! :twisted: )

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Last edited by Nicknackerski on Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

tech44
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta soon...

Post by tech44 » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:11 pm

tech44 wrote:
HeadrickProductions wrote: I mean could reason developers leave and make a reason clone!?
Again though, not just developers but FOUNDERS of a company. For example you're talking Jobs and Wozniak of Apple vs a developer employed by Apple.

I'm not stating this is the case, I'm just saying it may be one possible reason why they think they can legally do this.
But, from what I pull up in searching nobody on the bitwig team looks like an original Ableton founder. Does anyone know what their affiliation was? Should be interesting either way :lol:
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HeadrickProductions
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta soon...

Post by HeadrickProductions » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:12 pm

they would not spend the time and money on this start up if their was a risk of being sued. At least i hope not
Last edited by HeadrickProductions on Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In a K induced Haze (the old K kind not the special K kind ), but an Asian spizz can sometimes bring me out! If ya don't get it, ya never will.

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Machinesworking
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta soon...

Post by Machinesworking » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:14 pm

Cool, looking forward to it. No AU is a let down for those of us still using Logic or Digital Performer, but if the Linux version is as stable as the OSX and Windows version then that changes everything in a big way. Especially if they can leverage the advantages of Linux making it perform with zero latency or with lean CPU use.

The modular approach looks like Plogue Bidule, which is cool. Was hoping for CPU over network leveraging like Logic or Vienna Studio, that should be in the future from the looks of the other networking abilities.

So it looks like in the future you could write in OSX or Windows, print various OS specific files to audio then port the whole live performance piece to a stripped down ultra stable Linux laptop. IMO Ableton if this turns out to be a stable environment to work in will have something to worry about. If they price it like Logic then Ableton are really going to have to come up with a new marketing strategy. As of now though, it's going to be much easier to play around with Bitwig and work in Live.

Off topic a bit but why hasn't a Linux DAW maker designed an OS specifically for their DAW? Seems like this could be a huge plus?

H20nly
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta soon...

Post by H20nly » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:27 pm

Machinesworking wrote:Off topic a bit but why hasn't a Linux DAW maker designed an OS specifically for their DAW? Seems like this could be a huge plus?
audio drivers for hardware??? just guessing that this might be a limitation.


in reference to them taking Ableton's code... i'm pretty damn sure that during the hiring process it was discussed that Ableton would be keeping what was developed on their time/money. :lol: seriously guys... besides, how do you base what the code looks like on a bunch of jpegs, and specs... you can't judge a book by it's cover and you can't read whats inside one that way either.

Ryanmf
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta soon...

Post by Ryanmf » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:28 pm

I'm thrilled about this. Been anxiously awaiting an announcement from these guys for quite a while. I hope to get in on the beta (I've been on the mailing list for months) and fully expect that there are going to be some rough spots initially, but this has so much going for it.

Did anyone else read:
Multiple audio events per clip
An audio clip can contain multiple audio events. You can chop and edit audio files inside a clip non-destructively and loop it all as a package.
and think, "So, basically MLR?"

Automation looks great, the way they've handled the clip/arrangement dichotomy looks smart (and intelligent multi-monitor support—fuck yeah), the Reaktor/Max/Bidule-like roll-your-own instruments/effects system could be incredible.

Of course, there could be any number of wrenches in the gears we don't know about yet (lack of AU support is already a bummer, but since they're targeting all three OS platforms I can't say I'm surprised), but I can't wait to start playing with this.

Edit: Native OSC support (and smart MIDI handling in general) would also be huge. I feel like I trust these guys' vision though—all that's left is execution.

HeadrickProductions
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta soon...

Post by HeadrickProductions » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:33 pm

H20nly wrote:in reference to them taking Ableton's code... i'm pretty damn sure that during the hiring process it was discussed that Ableton would be keeping what was developed on their time/money. :lol: seriously guys...
that's what I would think. Also most companies make you sign a non compete clause. You know something like you will not take the information/trade secrets learned here and go down the street and open up your own place for a certain period of time. I mean even when I studied martial arts they made me sign one that lasted for three years within a certain area.

Something just does not make sense but obviously they can do it otherwise ableton would shut it down with a quickness.

Ok no my hype time to go play drums

on kvr 140 posts almost 14000 views! WOW
In a K induced Haze (the old K kind not the special K kind ), but an Asian spizz can sometimes bring me out! If ya don't get it, ya never will.

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Ryanmf
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta soon...

Post by Ryanmf » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:42 pm

HeadrickProductions wrote:Also most companies make you sign a non compete clause
You're right, they do. Fortunately, businesses aren't judges, and judges in some places (like here in California) have ruled that non-compete clauses in employment contracts are unenforceable.

As it pertains to Bitwig specifically, both they and Ableton are in Berlin. The EU is more worker-friendly in general, and it looks like in Germany the policy is that employers can only enforce a non-compete clause for two years, and only then if they pay their former employees at least 50% of what their gross salary would be during that time not to work.

In short, I sincerely doubt four of Ableton's senior software engineers would have embarked on a project like this (especially if they secured funding from a third party, even if it was just a bank loan) without investigating the legal environment, and I'm even more doubtful they'd be announcing/launching the product if they thought it would get them sued.

mhadk
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta soon...

Post by mhadk » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:44 pm

Hmm, this is odd.

If you look up the domain info of Ableton and Bitwig, you can
find the addresses that both companies have registered with:

Bitwig:

registrant-organization: Bitwig GmbH
registrant-type: PERSON
registrant-address: Schwedter Str. 13
registrant-postcode: 10119
registrant-city: Berlin
registrant-country: DE

Ableton:

[owner-c] org: Ableton AG
[owner-c] address: Schoenhauser Allee 6/7
[owner-c] city: Berlin
[owner-c] pcode: 10119
[owner-c] country: DE
[owner-c] state: Berlin


If you look these addresses up on Google Maps, you'll find that they are located only 650 meters apart:

http://maps.google.dk/maps?saddr=Sch%C3 ... v&t=h&z=17

sporkles
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta soon...

Post by sporkles » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:44 pm

Wow. I haven't bothered skimming through the six pages here, but I have to say this whole thing seems weird to me. OK, so I know that Bitwig was started by former Ableton employees, I don't know on what terms the former Ableton employee(s?) left Ableton, or how much of the idea behind Live was his/their doing, but how the hell can these two programmes coexist without a lawsuit? It's one of the most blatant ripoffs I've ever seen. It's Live with a different look and a bunch of feature requests (garnered from the ABLETON boards, no doubt) incorporated.

This whole thing has a rather foul stench to it, in my opinion.

edit: Actually, I'd say that Ableton are now free to test the beta and nick all the features that aren't already in Live.
Last edited by sporkles on Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

regretfullySaid
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta soon...

Post by regretfullySaid » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:46 pm

I would think it has more to do with patenting GUI elements, and there could be different types of ways on how the coders work is handled ie, once it's in, it's Abletons, or, "you can still keep your code outside of Ableton".

So unless Ableton patented their session view it shouldn't be a problem, and even if the coder couldn't keep his code, it's not like it would be hard to make it the same, yet different (semantics). That's my layman take.

Native OSC is a great idea.
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BTW, is it up to the OS for a program to natively support multitouch?
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mholloway
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta soon...

Post by mholloway » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:52 pm

oh man, shit is getting INTERESTING.

this is all for the good. maybe it will be a quality live replacement, maybe it won't.....but competition is great for both companies, and most of all, for us.

this is exciting, but i hate jumping daws; even though it's so similar, there would inevitably be tons of stuff that I'd want to do in a second via my Live workflow, and would hit a wall of new-DAW-learning....which is such a time waster unless there's seriously good reason to do it.

so therefore what i'm really excited about is Live's upcoming response.....

(and if there isn't one, they are gonna pay, I'm thinking)...

oh and those who are saying "this is Live 9," get back with reality please, ok?


-M
Last edited by mholloway on Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
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Ryanmf
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta soon...

Post by Ryanmf » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:52 pm

shadx312 wrote:BTW, is it up to the OS for a program to natively support multitouch?
It is, although Windows 8 and some Linux distros (will) have native multitouch support.

OS X has support for *some* multitouch *gestures*—but that's not really the same thing.

regretfullySaid
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta soon...

Post by regretfullySaid » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:53 pm

I can picture Ableton running around like chickens with their heads cutoff. They got the shaft.

This really needs a Hitler video.
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Peevy
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Re: finally... BITWIG STUDIO! beta soon...

Post by Peevy » Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:55 pm

jellycaster wrote:
Peevy wrote:64bit, Dual monitor support, Native Linux Support!

I use Linux for everything but making music. A DAW/Sequencer that rivals Live in Linux would be a really really good thing. But I loves my Lives...come on Ableton make Linux LIVE

could you or someone give me a quick overview as to what the advantages of using a DAW in linux might be? cheers in advance
Well some would argue that Linux is much more stable than Windows (not so much mac) which would be especially good for live performance. Its also been said that there's greater potential to reach even lower latency with linux. Its free which is a plus point for everyone, even musicians.

But I'd rather not start a big debate about it, its been done many times before. For me personally, its just so I can work exclusively in the OS I prefer. But then all my fav plugins would have to be ported too......... :(
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