Mixed Track has different response depending on Volume

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Pasha
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Mixed Track has different response depending on Volume

Post by Pasha » Mon Jan 16, 2012 7:46 am

This might sound embarrassing... well actually it is!
I have mixed down several pieces but they sound different
depending on volume... as long as I keep volume as 'background'
music everything is ok, I can even switch the Loudness on on my amp.
When 'Listening' is ok.. When 'Pushing Loud' it starts booming.
This might be related to my other post regarding the Bass Guitar recording
but it's indeed strange for me so any explanation or shared experience might
be very useful... :?
Is this happening to you?

- Best
- Pasha
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Samaritan Sound
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Re: Mixed Track has different response depending on Volume

Post by Samaritan Sound » Mon Jan 16, 2012 9:44 pm

Well we perceive all music differently depending on loudness - look up Fletcher Munson Equal Loudness Contours. This may be exacerbated by your mixing. When you mix, do you check it at varying volumes?

Pasha
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Re: Mixed Track has different response depending on Volume

Post by Pasha » Tue Jan 17, 2012 8:21 am

Samaritan Sound wrote:Well we perceive all music differently depending on loudness - look up Fletcher Munson Equal Loudness Contours. This may be exacerbated by your mixing. When you mix, do you check it at varying volumes?
Thanks for reply.

The chain of checking is :

1)Good headphones
2)iPod hedphones
3)Car
4)Standard Stereo (TEAC AMP + 40W passive speakers)

All at different volumes:

as loud as spoken voice
as loud as background music
as loud as I can @ my flat without neighbors calling police
Never at club volumes, being my distribution in Internet anyway via MP3.

- Best
- Pasha
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Live 9 Suite,Zebra 2.6,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
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fishmonkey
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Re: Mixed Track has different response depending on Volume

Post by fishmonkey » Tue Jan 17, 2012 9:55 am

is the "booming" apparent on all systems, or???

Pasha
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Re: Mixed Track has different response depending on Volume

Post by Pasha » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:03 pm

fishmonkey wrote:is the "booming" apparent on all systems, or???
It's happening less on Car Speaker and more on Stereo Hi-Fi equipment. Not at all using iPod (with no EQ)
or through computer audio via ipod headphones.

- Best
- Pasha
Apple Desktop / Laptop
Live 9 Suite,Zebra 2.6,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
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Samaritan Sound
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Re: Mixed Track has different response depending on Volume

Post by Samaritan Sound » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:22 pm

The car and stereo may be revealing some room modes, in other words it could be influenced by the acoustics in that environment. As for earbuds, they all color the sound in varying ways depending on the model. You might aim to tame the bottom end just enough to sound good in the car, yet still decent with the other two. While playing on the HiFi, walk around the room and see if it gets better or worse depending on where you stand...

oddstep
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Re: Mixed Track has different response depending on Volume

Post by oddstep » Tue Jan 17, 2012 2:31 pm

this the sort of thing I go through all the time. I'd guess that your hifi and car have got a better bass response than your ipod head phones. do tracks you've bought sound boomier at loud volumes or only one's you've produced yourself. I'm guessing its only your own otherwise you'd be thinking - my soundsystem gets boom at loud volumes. I think its telling you something about your mixdowns... .maybe its a narrow q bass boost at a frequency that those two speakers sets are sensitive to. that's a complete guess though.

Pasha
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Re: Mixed Track has different response depending on Volume

Post by Pasha » Sun Jan 22, 2012 6:48 am

oddstep wrote:this the sort of thing I go through all the time. I'd guess that your hifi and car have got a better bass response than your ipod head phones. do tracks you've bought sound boomier at loud volumes or only one's you've produced yourself. I'm guessing its only your own otherwise you'd be thinking - my soundsystem gets boom at loud volumes. I think its telling you something about your mixdowns... .maybe its a narrow q bass boost at a frequency that those two speakers sets are sensitive to. that's a complete guess though.
...In the end speakers have their own freq response.
The 'commercial' tracks I bought sound less boomier than mine but sound the almost the same on ipod.
Definitively a speaker (if you consider hear phones a sort of speaker) difference here.
I'll have to investigate this, sound reasonable, thank you.

- Best
- Pasha
Apple Desktop / Laptop
Live 9 Suite,Zebra 2.6,Guitar, Bass, VG99, JV1010 and some controllers
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Tone Deft
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Re: Mixed Track has different response depending on Volume

Post by Tone Deft » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:06 am

if I read you right, 'pushing the loud button' means there's some vague marketing driven audio enhancement bullshit being applied to your tune. it could be that the 'loud' feature just boosts a narrow frequency range and your track has lots going on in that narrow band. from the portable stereos I've had over the years they seemed to boost the bass just above the low end, ~100-200 Hz if I had to guess.

I'd skip that test and just use examples where you turned the volume up. although in a perfect world you would master for ALL those weird 'loud' buttons on peoples' stereos. can you play Live through it direct? use the tone generator to hear where it boosts the audio.
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fishmonkey
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Re: Mixed Track has different response depending on Volume

Post by fishmonkey » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:18 am

btw, 'loudness' controls are actually designed to be used at low playback volumes.

essentially they apply a 'smile' EQ (boosting low & high freqs) to account for the Fletcher-Munson curve.

the manual of your amp might list the exact EQ that is applied.

Pasha
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Re: Mixed Track has different response depending on Volume

Post by Pasha » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:33 pm

Tone Deft wrote:if I read you right, 'pushing the loud button' means there's some vague marketing driven audio enhancement bullshit being applied to your tune. it could be that the 'loud' feature just boosts a narrow frequency range and your track has lots going on in that narrow band. from the portable stereos I've had over the years they seemed to boost the bass just above the low end, ~100-200 Hz if I had to guess.

I'd skip that test and just use examples where you turned the volume up. although in a perfect world you would master for ALL those weird 'loud' buttons on peoples' stereos. can you play Live through it direct? use the tone generator to hear where it boosts the audio.
Good tip. In a simple way... stop bugging yourself. All of those equipment out there cannot be satisfied all at once.
So focus on your equipment and ramp up the volume there instead. When it's ok, it's ok.. ;-) A Cup of Zen. I'd say! :mrgreen:
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oddstep
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Re: Mixed Track has different response depending on Volume

Post by oddstep » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:50 pm

surely you want to have tracks that perform predictably on loads of different soundsystems. I used to monitor my tracks through my home hi fi speakers. they were a bit teenage rudeboy... lot of bass and low mid. as a consequence when I played mixdowns on club PAs my tracks didn't have enough bass and the treble/hi hats was really up in the mix. this wasn't helped by my lack of experience in mixing. I reckon the loudness button test is good. its like the car speaker test, but you don't have to leave the room. :)

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