Page 4 of 8
Re: is bitwig an ableton product
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:09 pm
by loydb
If it weren't for the Linux thing, I'd lean toward a viral Live 9 marketing campaign.
Re: is bitwig an ableton product
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:17 pm
by JuanSOLO
fx23 wrote:i might be bad searching or what (search function is strange, isn't it) but I never found or recall the correlations and infos about bitwig and autom to session you mention.
I guess when I say "research
this" this=bitwig not automation to session. I am using "fanatic about automation to session" because I know YOU are, and hence any info about some other company doing an Ableton knock off, possibly offering this highly requested feature, WELL you might look for every bit of information you can on the matter.
I couldn't really find that much, info. However I saw a thread somewhere (i forget where) and one of the bigwigs founders briefly says something about leaving Ableton to start a new company. The thread is a couple years or more old.
Then there was the tweet Ableton posted about singing up for testing the new Live.
Also a questionable thread in some random place about some kid seeing Live 9 on an employees computer somewhere. He briefly describes what he saw.
Prior to David saying anything, I would have bet the price of Live 9, based upon the information above mixed with some common sense about product branding. I'ts just obvious that there would be no benefit for either company by confusing people with bitwig is "really" Live 9. Lastly, the bitwig promo, blog, facebook page, vs information from Abelton clearly indicate these are separate companies.
wildcon wrote:Who Cares!!!
you cared enough to post this^
Re: is bitwig an ableton product
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:50 pm
by fx23
yeah that make sense, i am ok to follow that scenario that bitwig is unhappy ex abes and they done the rewrite independantly.
The wonder was then if was kind of clash or co-lab or sub cell dev, and imo in latest case that could make sense they choose to not make it appears it was same compagny, so A)they keep bw with live and B) they assure the next thing. C) make all kinds of customer happy and buy any of the 2 products. But David cleard that so we assume they are really 2 products and 2 compagny.
but then bad time for live isn't it? something rewritten 1:1 with all requested features will surely make a certain
amount of people swich, especially if transition is easy and people know it's somehow made by the people who build live on first place that leaved the ship. If they copy 1:1 and are able to recreate all of this in 3 years plus correct the thing that
really means the 'core' of ableton is somehow in bitwig now for me.. well i hope L9 will shine anyway, but weather looks dark imo.
Re: is bitwig an ableton product
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:59 pm
by Slightlydelic
Ableton_David wrote:sdfak1234 wrote:I didn't read Ableton_David's comments at first, but I'm sorry, no disrespect, but the lack of any proper official statements from Ableton on these matters or the state of their development efforts, means I can't take internal forum whispers with any much regard. You've had loyal customers on here for month demanding official statements.
I noticed that Ableton David stated that they were 2 different companies and did not collaborate, but I'm not reading anything that there is no relationship, these companies could have been deliberately split up and told not to collaborate, as I said 2 completely separate development branches.... I don't really want to get into speculation too much.... but if David is right then, like I said, Ableton really needs to step it up, or why they just saying something?... and Ableton doesn't really need rewrite due to session automation, it's more the practice they've locked themselves into, it needs a rewrite because it obviously uses very a clunky codebase, one that is not modern, prone to crashing, slow and obviously so locked in that they can't even make quick bug fixes anymore...live never took off like it should, it's all very disappointing... I'm now considering miracle like expectations from Ableton 9 which seem very unlikely... but who knows, I just wish the silence would drop soon, because I will jump ship to Bitwig if Ableton is going slower than them, despite some features lacking at first.
Believe me, we wouldn't lie to the community like that. Bitwig and Ableton are different, and there has been no collaboration between the two.
As to an official statement, we don't comment on other companies' products.
how about an official statement about live-9 then?
Re: is bitwig an ableton product
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:03 pm
by regretfullySaid
The race is pretty exciting though.
What will come out first? How will the reaction turn out? Then how will the reaction be when the other release comes out and how will they compare?
This is like a season finale cliffhanger for Live nerds.
Re: is bitwig an ableton product
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:12 pm
by fx23
yeah, thats a so exciting climax. iam soooo impatient to know, after 3y, and 7 waiting autom to session,
you feel it's coming at last reeally soon, the movie is going to end but still not yet .. arf insane waiting
and this thing comes from quasi nowhere and make your brain overheat.
stop the torture! bring L9, bitwig beta or whatever, but briiing it
Re: is bitwig an ableton product
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:15 pm
by JuanSOLO
I dont know, I feel like I had a revelation about it all when I saw the Traktor anniversary footage.
Seems Traktor's new advancements are inspired by Ableton Live (which in it's current form is 2 plus years old)
Bitwig is simply adding popular feature requests to Live 8 in version 1.
Maschine is still a very clunky version of session view, despite some of it's features.
To me that says, Live 8 is still holding it's own against these newer products, and most definitely Live in general is the inspiration for them.
as for Live 9....All the other players cards are on the table, the door is clearly open for Ableton to get way out ahead of the game, and I predict thats exactly what we will see.
This also made me think, how innovative, a really old version of Reaktor still is. In many ways Reaktor influenced so much of the popular plugs, FX, DJ tricks, controllerizm ideas etc. Reaktor still out performs M4L in some areas, and it's a few years older than M4L.
In other words, I think Ableton has been a lot more innovative than people give them credit for, in light of the lust for new features others are providing.
Re: is bitwig an ableton product
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:26 pm
by glitchrock-buddha
I knew that bitwig would cause a stir in the ableton world, but I never imagined people would go so far as to suspect it is actually Ableton trying to fool people into thinking it's a new program. Even for the Ableton forum that's a little out there.
Re: is bitwig an ableton product
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:28 pm
by regretfullySaid
No doubt to the last 2 posts. It was obvious when every other DAW incorporated some version of their own session view; it was like an unspoken acknowledgement.
There's a lot of people who have a lot of investment in their setups that Live is central to. It's kind of ridiculous to think there's going to be a sudden dent when BW comes out, like a mass migration would happen right off the bat.
Re: is bitwig an ableton product
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:29 pm
by gorillaknuckles
Ableton is/was totally innovative. They brought a whole new tasty meal to the DAW menu imo. It was the first DAW where I could actually fluidly follow my inspiration since Octamed.
But what happened? Sure, they got laurels to rest on, but they're getting pretty wilted and stinky these days.
Its like the wild young dynamo who gets serious recognition, then proceeds to get fat, addicted to drugs and sits around smelling his own farts.
Re: is bitwig an ableton product
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:36 pm
by regretfullySaid
It's in rehab.
Re: is bitwig an ableton product
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:38 pm
by JuanSOLO
shadx312 wrote:It's in rehab.
WORD! And if they have a successful recovery, like most recovering addicts, they will outshine anything they have done previously.
Re: is bitwig an ableton product
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:46 pm
by gorillaknuckles
I love software zealotry.
Re: is bitwig an ableton product
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:47 pm
by fx23
shadx312 wrote:No doubt to the last 2 posts. It was obvious when every other DAW incorporated some version of their own session view; it was like an unspoken acknowledgement.
There's a lot of people who have a lot of investment in their setups that Live is central to. It's kind of ridiculous to think there's going to be a sudden dent when BW comes out, like a mass migration would happen right off the bat.
Man could arguee that there are still very few session alternative, that they are implemented in a completely different form/manner/gui and that in any case None can replace Live, whereas here it's basically a clone made by people that build live one's on first place, and basically the same with automation added.
i ll speak for my own but if bitwig is made by ex-ableton core, got rewritten it in a clean manner with all the aspects i espect from start, i will easy blow out my live setups to start new bitwigs setups. im not saying bitwig will take half of ableton customers in two days, or willing bad things to abes that for sure were innovative on firtst place (but missed the rewrite autom stuff imo) but certainly a non negligeable amout of custommers will jump.
Re: is bitwig an ableton product
Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:52 pm
by ttilberg
Not that I follow rumors too closely, and obviously this isn't said and done until it's done--- but seeing this made me a little sad.
Last month I finally ponied up money to get the full Live Suite, thinking "I'll be part of the family now, and can get upgrade pricing into future versions. Yay me. I'm paying for software I use. woooo!" But seeing this preview video makes it look less like competition, and more like evolution. Some features requested required re-write, and this is it, as a separate company and product, likely with licenses to use certain parts of Live's codebase/UI. Maybe this is why they have been devoutly focused on not working towards Live 9, but instead bug fixes on 8. I don't think Live 9 will have those "features" everyone requests. That said, I bought Live 8, and that will not be taken away, so that's cool. Just a little bummed that I see this and wonder if this is the end of the trail?
Anyway, I'm not looking for trolls or flames or whatever. That was just the thought that went through my mind after watching that video. I feel the interface is way too similar to not have been originally licensed by Ableton in some way.
I'm not a I.P. lawyer and don't play one on TV. It just seems like there would be legal issues to copy Live so blatantly. It likely was split up for legal and marketing reasons.
Also, Bitwig looks pretty sweet.