Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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chelemasty
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Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by chelemasty » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:01 am

Release an official statement about it already. Will we get it this year? Man! I want 64-bit already. :(
Equipments: Softwares, hardwares, plastics and metal controllers, computers, headphones, a pair monitor speaker, and electricity to power them up.

3dot...
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by 3dot... » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:53 am

chelemasty wrote: Man! I want 64-bit already. :(
why ?
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LeifonMars
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by LeifonMars » Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:55 pm

3dot... wrote:
chelemasty wrote: Man! I want 64-bit already. :(
why ?
Because everybody keeps touting about it.
MBP OSX 10.6.8, Live 8.4, MFII, Evolver, Monomachine, Octatrack, APC40, Launchpad

fisto
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by fisto » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:31 pm

looks like Ableton became the new Steinberg-asshole-attitude company............Ableton will die eventually if they keep beeing such assholes!!!

doom_Oo7
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by doom_Oo7 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:41 pm

Why you say?

Because of this (and the fucking metal foundry where kits alone are roughly 2gb in memory)
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And this because hard disk latency is TOO DAMN HIGH!
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skatr2
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by skatr2 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:41 pm

fisto wrote:looks like Ableton became the new Steinberg-asshole-attitude company............Ableton will die eventually if they keep beeing such assholes!!!
either its sarcasm or you have some serious anger issues 8O

esky
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by esky » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:05 pm

Man! I want 64-bit already.
I switched to 64 bits in Logic. The music still sounds the same... :roll:

fisto
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by fisto » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:08 pm

skatr2 wrote:
fisto wrote:looks like Ableton became the new Steinberg-asshole-attitude company............Ableton will die eventually if they keep beeing such assholes!!!
either its sarcasm or you have some serious anger issues 8O
erm....don't project your feelings on other people mate!
Am I saying something which is not true:

1.Steinberg does not communicate with their customers
2.they give a shit about some long-standing bugs
3. expensive
4. they give a shit about feature requests

all this points are true for Ableton too so shut stop sounding like a little girl :D


PS: over 1.5 years no real statement about a new Live-version?? This is simply ignoring your customers and in the world where I come from I call those people ignorant assholes you know?

3dot...
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by 3dot... » Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:39 pm

I sadly have to agree... ^^
(with most of what you say..)
aside from empty apologies..
Abletons' attitude towards it's user's has become very "impersonal"(not sure if this is the right word)
...in relation to old times..
I guess it should be expected..that with increase in popularity/sales..
aside from Robert whos posts here are priceless..
only dude to hang around is moderator "David"..who's doing his job..

the people burnt from the initial v8 release..(like me)
were never really compensated..
an moderately complex setup which took you years to perfect..
will not be easily replaced..
and so Live users were faced with 2 options..
1. bite your lip continue using buggy v8...and hope for better days..
2.Ableton offered a refund..so you could go back to v7 and get your $ back..
(they did this mainly to avoid law suits)

both options kindof suck if you ask me..
I'm glad my $ went to better the software..
but pretty disappointed (not sure if that's the right word either) at the same time..


and if to make matters worse they pulled "share" and promised the new one will be out in about a year ..
and we're gonna be "excited" about it..
well...we're still waiting..

about 64bit... I guess it's 1 of the more obvious fearures of L9...
so it's only a question of time..
tick tock Ableton...
it still crashes with m4l on occasions btw...
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Nokatus
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Nokatus » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:18 pm

doom_Oo7 wrote:Why you say?

Because of this (and the fucking metal foundry where kits alone are roughly 2gb in memory)
I agree, 64 bit functionality is important because of ever increasing plugin memory requirements. HOWEVER, here's another take on this, from a pretty highly regarded developer: http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/201 ... -problems/

That was kind of an eye-opener, even if it has a certain workaround vibe to it. Still, Jbridge has been a problem solver for me with Live previously, so I recommend checking it out, too.

remute99
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by remute99 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:42 pm

Nokatus wrote:
doom_Oo7 wrote:Why you say?

Because of this (and the fucking metal foundry where kits alone are roughly 2gb in memory)
I agree, 64 bit functionality is important because of ever increasing plugin memory requirements. HOWEVER, here's another take on this, from a pretty highly regarded developer: http://varietyofsound.wordpress.com/201 ... -problems/

That was kind of an eye-opener, even if it has a certain workaround vibe to it. Still, Jbridge has been a problem solver for me with Live previously, so I recommend checking it out, too.
I tried the bit bridge, was as buggy as fuck on my Mac.
The whole, "I'm fine without 64bit so why do you need it," was mildly understandable at first but nowadays just smacks of pig-headed solipsism. It's been explained again and again.
I switched to Logic, finally I can use my main tools - Omnisphere, RMX, Kontakt without Live crashing every 5 fucking minutes.
As to the devs being aloof - it's way less of a problem when the - much cheaper - DAW actually works. Why Ableton pulled their, "We're really sorry about 8 being buggy and now we're going to fuck off from our forum and leave you guys to squabble about what the hells going on," is a marketing mystery.
I personally hope Bitwig kick their asses in to gear.
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skatr2
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by skatr2 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:47 pm

3dot... wrote: the people burnt from the initial v8 release..(like me)
were never really compensated..
an moderately complex setup which took you years to perfect..
will not be easily replaced..
and so Live users were faced with 2 options..
1. bite your lip continue using buggy v8...and hope for better days..
2.Ableton offered a refund..so you could go back to v7 and get your $ back..
(they did this mainly to avoid law suits)
Its statements like these that make me think people put too much feeling into their expectations on a company. Maybe in the past they needed to be more personal to get people on board, and thats why people expected so much more down the road. You feel "burned" because of a program you expected a lot out of and for this I understand when its as buggy as it was. But to say you were "never really compensated" is a tad bit rash. They released apologies (and fulfilled ones...not "empty") and in an effort to make ammends went through 8 and sorted out a lot of bugs. AND to top it off they offered a refund! 8 for me has been exceptionally stable from 8.2 on. There are features I would like to see implemented in future versions, but so far my creativity has not been stifled by what is available to me.

I don't "expect" 64bit to be integrated into 8. I dont "expect" many features requested to be integrated into 8. They were not present when I bought live 8 and I knew what I was getting into when I took that dive. Though some features didn't pan out, these weren't deal breakers on my end. Just an occasional nuissance. I do expect the requests to be FEATURES in future products as any company would have a failed business model to just throw everything into an already purchased product.

Nokatus
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Nokatus » Mon Jan 23, 2012 3:57 pm

remute99 wrote:The whole, "I'm fine without 64bit so why do you need it," was mildly understandable at first but nowadays just smacks of pig-headed solipsism. It's been explained again and again.
Nah, I didn't mean it that way. I just hope it can solve some of the problems people are having, especially as the plugins mentioned in the article are the exact same ones doom_Oo7 mentioned. Jbridge has worked very well on Windows for me, but I still want native 64 bit support badly, of course.

ark
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by ark » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:44 pm

I don't know whether you remember this, but a couple of years ago, the CEO of Ableton posted a message in this forum that he felt his company had disappointed his customers by releaseing a product (Live 8, of course) with so many bugs that many customers found it unusable. As a result, he said, he was ceasing all work on new features and overhauling the development process until Live was stable enough that he could feel proud of it again.

I commented at the time that this move took a lot of courage, but it was the right thing to do. Many companies in a similar situation would have tried to muddle through, and my experience in the software development world is that such muddling usually doesn't work.

Since then, Live has become much more reliable. If I imagine what the Ableton folks must be thinking, foremost in my imagination is that idea that they do not want to repeat this particular mistake. In particular, I'm confident that they must be thinking that when they release Live 9, they do not want the first customer response to be to complain about how buggy it is. As a result, it does not surprise me in the least that Live 9 is taking longer than people expect.

ark
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by ark » Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:51 pm

Oh yeah, one more thing.

If you look at the new products announced at NAMM 2012, you will see that lots of them involve the iPad. In particular, the Lemur software was recently released for iPad, and, of course, there is already a handshake between Lemur and Ableton.

This is pure speculation, but if I ran the zoo at Ableton, I would want to be sure that when Live 9 came out, it included excellent iPad communication right out of the box, because a lot of iPad owners would then immediately have first-class controllers available. I would also want to be sure that whatever I released worked smoothly with the iPad 3, which has yet to be released.

Therefore, it would not surprise me to learn that Ableton is holding off on the release of Live 9 until they can get their hands on iPad 3 prototypes, in order to ensure that their customers will not buy Live 9, then buy an iPad 3, and find that the two do not play well together.

Current rumors are that Apple has already started manufacturing the iPad 3, and intends to release it around the beginning of March.

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