Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Nicknackerski
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Nicknackerski » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:39 pm

gjm wrote:
Nicknackerski wrote:That leaves a whole year for other software manufacturers to steal abletons customers :twisted:
Most people are fundamentally not that loyal. Although there are some around who do not have a second or third DAW on their computer, most can make their way around more than just Live. I would say for the majority, Live is an option they have or choose when they need it. Even if they did move onto another DAW as first choice, then most would hold onto their Live license rather than sell out of curiosity. Ableton know that most of their customers are already other companies customers.
Thats a good point gjm.

oddstep
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by oddstep » Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:46 pm

what ark sez is roughly what I assume to be the case. Live 8 was so traumatic for Ableton that they've adopted a more cautious approach to software development. people are going to complain either way - its better to make something that works reasonably well rather than stick to a tight release schedule and just create microtweaked versions (7) or monsters (8).

remute99
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by remute99 » Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:43 pm

Nokatus wrote:
remute99 wrote:The whole, "I'm fine without 64bit so why do you need it," was mildly understandable at first but nowadays just smacks of pig-headed solipsism. It's been explained again and again.
Nah, I didn't mean it that way. I just hope it can solve some of the problems people are having, especially as the plugins mentioned in the article are the exact same ones doom_Oo7 mentioned. Jbridge has worked very well on Windows for me, but I still want native 64 bit support badly, of course.
It wasn't directed at you at all, I appreciate you were being helpful.
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crumhorn
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by crumhorn » Mon Jan 23, 2012 11:07 pm

From the look of their job adverts they've adopted the system known as Agile Software development

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agile_software_development

One of the main ideas behind this is that development is done in short "sprints" generally lasting only a few weeks.

At the start of each sprint the management team put forward a set of features that the would like to see implemented during the sprint. the various development teams get together in a big room and discuss the features, decide who is doing what and commit to completing the feature during the next sprint.

You don't write any code until you first write the "unit test" that will tell you if the code you've written works or not.

All the unit test are compiled into a comprehensive automated test suite

you never, not ever, check any code back to the repository until it passes all unit tests.

At the end of every day (or possibly more often) all the current code in the repository is compiled and built and the entire test suite is applied.

The code on the main repository branch should always be release quality code. Deciding when to release is a management decision based on adequate feature set.

That is the theory.

But they have a lot of legacy code.

I worked on a project like that, creating software for a telephone, trying to adopt Agile and continuous integration with a huge legacy code base. It was a total nightmare and overran by 18 months.

Sincerely hope this isn't happening at Ableton. Those slick Agile consultancy firms are nothing but snake oil salesmen IMHO. Sack them - Sack them now!
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sabiwa
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by sabiwa » Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:44 am

Ableton is looking for software engineers, web developers etc. Could it be that they are still somwhere in the middle between eight and "nine". Just a layman's thought... :?

oddstep
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by oddstep » Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:38 am

I find the prospect of another 6 months of forum ultimatums and specification prophecy pretty unwelcome.

Evengy
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Evengy » Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:16 am

ableton has 130 employees and only a few startet bitwig. its hard to find good develpers but i don´t think that this is a reason to stop live 9 development :) i hate it to recieve no informations.

Gregory Wells-King
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by Gregory Wells-King » Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:37 am

esky wrote:
Man! I want 64-bit already.
I switched to 64 bits in Logic. The music still sounds the same... :roll:
And that's it really. I'm shocked to see all the profanity about this. V9 V9, what do you want next, for your DAW to able to write your tune
so you can play on the beach. I read a Gary Numan nterview with that as his leaving quote the other day.

My advice, give up making music for the time being go and do something completely different, you have lost your way and the break will no doubt give you fresh perspective on what's important.

In this day and age making tunes that you are happy with first and that's been a joy to make is possibly more important than stuff trimed for public audience, so why worry?

If you bang your fists to get a version change of your DAW you'll be banging them twice as hard when your latest LP is put up on Pirate Bay so I wouldn't worry. :roll:

That being said I understand and are just now begining to be sympathetic to the 64 bit issue. (Not that I am 64bit)

dab
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by dab » Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:35 am

Its starting to look alot like what happened to Tracktion here....no programmers, no program updates. :cry:

c33
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by c33 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:17 pm

No : ) it's just looking like a lot of whining as usual.

pgmjsd
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by pgmjsd » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:26 pm

crumhorn wrote:From the look of their job adverts they've adopted the system known as Agile Software development
You don't write any code until you first write the "unit test" that will tell you if the code you've written works or not.
All the unit test are compiled into a comprehensive automated test suite
you never, not ever, check any code back to the repository until it passes all unit tests.
That's TDD. Only part of aglile. This applies to non-agile methods as well. Don't commit until the tests pass. That just messes up your team-mates and your downstream people (QA, etc.).
At the end of every day (or possibly more often) all the current code in the repository is compiled and built and the entire test suite is applied.

The code on the main repository branch should always be release quality code. Deciding when to release is a management decision based on adequate feature set.
Daily builds are done by lots of non-agile companies. So are continuous integration builds. Usually I prefer to do both. It's great to get an email saying someone broke the build right after they commit some bad stuff. :)
That is the theory.

But they have a lot of legacy code.

I worked on a project like that, creating software for a telephone, trying to adopt Agile and continuous integration with a huge legacy code base. It was a total nightmare and overran by 18 months.

Sincerely hope this isn't happening at Ableton. Those slick Agile consultancy firms are nothing but snake oil salesmen IMHO. Sack them - Sack them now!
Yeah, definitely fire any expensive "agile consultants". You can read some books, try some things for yourself, see what works for you. Every company is different.

Legacy code, IMO is actually a good reason to adopt some of the agile ideas... the most important of which is to iterate. Build something using what you know, show it to some people, get their feedback right away and make another prototype. As opposed to spending months or years trying to write a huge requirements document that's out of date before you finish it (and probably just plain wrong and not at all what the user wanted).

So, my question is... If Ableton are going agile, who are the users that are doing the UATs and iteration reviews for Ableton 9? And can I be one of them? ;)

keefbaker
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by keefbaker » Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:40 pm

I know what you mean.. Ableton clearly aren't working on their software and have given up I mean.. it's been 11 days since the last beta version WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE!!!!111!1!!!

Honestly, if you want a version newer than 11 days old because that's too old for you I mean.... Look at yourselves.

3dot...
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by 3dot... » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:27 pm

the thing is...
no one wants another beta..
I do not want to subscribe to nightly builds..
simply to make/perform music..

in 'agile'.. management says when it's time to release a version..
in the v8 example...waaay too early..
I guess they must've really needed the $$$...at that point..
:?

I speculate a total rewrite..
the only thing that can explain a 3 year hiatus..
from a company that regularly released a major version once a year..for many years
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nycmex77
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by nycmex77 » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:38 pm

Any feedback on presonus studio one?
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gorillaknuckles
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Re: Geez, Ableton 9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by gorillaknuckles » Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:54 pm

I've just barely got my fingers into S1, but so far so good. Feels kinda like a logic/ableton hybrid in terms of interface, so its pretty quick to pick up. No crashes or weirdness yet, but like I said I haven't really pushed it.

There's no session view, so I'm sure thats a deal-breaker for plenty of peeps.

They've got a 30 day demo, I recommend checking it out -- it does have a number of those things (and others) that Abletoners have been waiting for.

Actually, so far the only thing lame about it is the name: Studio One 2. Or maybe its cool. The old One Two.

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