Is Session View counterproductive?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Angstrom
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Re: Is Session View counterproductive?

Post by Angstrom » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:50 pm

a lot of people mention how terrible Live's Arrangement view is in comparison to a(ny) competitor, and that's not wrong. But as soon I try and arrange in a competitor I find myself limited by the lack of a parallel non-linear mode to enhance and support the composing process.

Live's arrangement view is not that great for sure, but it's the combination with session which keeps me using this particular application.

It's like a car analogy, its stretched a bit thin and is never really the best solution, but it works better than anything else I can think of.

regretfullySaid
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Re: Is Session View counterproductive?

Post by regretfullySaid » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:52 pm

Even if I didn't use Arrangement for traditional use it's crucial for making new clips to bring back into session.

From recording follow actions to midi mapping the transpose on an audio clip; you can't consolidate that shit into one clip in session (although some impressive ideas in the FR forum have been proposed) unless you have another track recording it but I like to keep my sources in the same place.
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Tone Deft
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Re: Is Session View counterproductive?

Post by Tone Deft » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:58 pm

sure, do a DJ set with record to Arrange on. for years I just made long recordings into clips. I guess it could come down to tweaking automation. I use Arrange view but when I want to control Live I go to Session view.

edit - nice posts above.
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simmerdown
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Re: Is Session View counterproductive?

Post by simmerdown » Fri Feb 03, 2012 12:05 am

reaper is the only 'arrange only' daw ive ever used..meh. but how much better than Live can the other 'big daws' be? youre stacking legos, playing tetris

+ Live has the clip view in arrange still, and, and..

and yeh, its the two together

pencilrocket
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Re: Is Session View counterproductive?

Post by pencilrocket » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:13 am

Poster wrote:I don't think I can ever go back to something without some sort of grid view..
not only for all obvious non-linear reasons but also; where would you store all the content you're not using but don't want to store deep down on your HD either?
I understood linear sequencer like Cubase has pool that can organize every stuffs in your project. FL has SS that can orgernize every stuffs in your project. I think there are little sequencer that can't store contents unused in the lane.
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dna598
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Re: Is Session View counterproductive?

Post by dna598 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 9:24 am

levimoniz wrote: If my objective is to complete a song that has a start, middle, and end, I find that it is counterproductive for me.

If I want to spend hours listening to something looping over and over as I mute and unmute channels for my own immediate entertainment then Session View gets the job done, for me.
dude you got it all wrong. Maybe you are just recording simple songs on acoustic guitar, i dunno. That still doesn't make it counter productive, even though there is no pre roll.

Session view is not just about muting channels with a load of clips stacked like a dj set. It provides instant access to any kind of manipulation in sound or song structure , or to any idea you have, which just so happens to be stored in what is called a "scene".

If the furthest you are getting with session view is muting and un-muting for your own entertainment, you're not being productive (in the linear sense).

Try using stop buttons instead, and record it to the arrange.
ctrl + left/right = select transient

ctrl + shift + left/right = select between transients

ctrl + space = play selection

pencilrocket
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Re: Is Session View counterproductive?

Post by pencilrocket » Fri Feb 03, 2012 10:02 am

Why do you want to make him wrong even though he said "for me"? I don't think each are saying opposite opinion. levimoniz said that while arranging fooling around in session view isn't productive, you said that while recording clips into lanes launching clips spontaneously is productive.

Both are truth.
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dna598
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Re: Is Session View counterproductive?

Post by dna598 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:03 am

pencilrocket wrote:Why do you want to make him wrong even though he said "for me"? I don't think each are saying opposite opinion. levimoniz said that while arranging fooling around in session view isn't productive, you said that while recording clips into lanes launching clips spontaneously is productive.

Both are truth.
come on, i'm just trying to point him in the right direction of making it useful to him. Ofcourse fooling around is not being productive. (most of the time)
ctrl + left/right = select transient

ctrl + shift + left/right = select between transients

ctrl + space = play selection

djadonis206
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Re: Is Session View counterproductive?

Post by djadonis206 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:46 pm

Angstrom wrote:a lot of people mention how terrible Live's Arrangement view is in comparison to a(ny) competitor, and that's not wrong. But as soon I try and arrange in a competitor I find myself limited by the lack of a parallel non-linear mode to enhance and support the composing process.

Live's arrangement view is not that great for sure, but it's the combination with session which keeps me using this particular application.

It's like a car analogy, its stretched a bit thin and is never really the best solution, but it works better than anything else I can think of.
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dazzer
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Re: Is Session View counterproductive?

Post by dazzer » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:06 pm

Angstrom wrote:
It's like a car analogy, its stretched a bit thin and is never really the best solution, but it works better than anything else I can think of.
Nah, car analogies are always just plain rubbish. You wouldn't steal a car...

oddstep
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Re: Is Session View counterproductive?

Post by oddstep » Fri Feb 03, 2012 3:32 pm

Does Live's session view fund terrorism

regretfullySaid
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Re: Is Session View counterproductive?

Post by regretfullySaid » Fri Feb 03, 2012 4:10 pm

Neglect is a form of terrorism.
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rpc9943
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Re: Is Session View counterproductive?

Post by rpc9943 » Fri Feb 03, 2012 8:49 pm

Strange.

I only use arrange mode for my songs.

I still unfortunately haven't found a use for session mode.

I have very little complaints in arrange mode for writing music.

I probably create things similar to session mode, such as creating loops and dragging them out and playing and recording over them, etc.

I feel that session mode is too "nonlinear" after migrating from tracktion to Live specifically because I thought session mode was going to blossom my songwriting.

Still stuck in arrange mode, and loving it.

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The Carpet Cleaner
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Re: Is Session View counterproductive?

Post by The Carpet Cleaner » Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:51 pm

levimoniz wrote:
simmerdown wrote:this thread should have been titled SESSION VIEW IS SO PRODUCTIVE

bc, c'mon..counterproductive? no
If my objective is to complete a song that has a start, middle, and end, I find that it is counterproductive for me.

If I want to spend hours listening to something looping over and over as I mute and unmute channels for my own immediate entertainment then Session View gets the job done, for me.

"Is Session View counterproductive?"

That's a question, not a statement.

It's not necessary to try and defend Session View to me because as someone posing a question I don't have a stance. That's what it means to pose a question. If I made a statement, however, then it could be expected for folks to get their palms all sweaty trying to convince me I'm wrong.

Besides, there have been others in this thread who have stated that they've completed next to nothing messing around in Session and still others who say they don't use it for anything at all.

The purpose of this thread is to exchange ideas and insights, not for me to state my opinion as fact then defend it to 1,000 people
Well, now try to record the performance that you just usually do for fun. Then go back to arrangement and ... Arrange and trim. You'll see that very often you naturally buit something close to a regular arrangement while jamming.

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