In The Box is the future

[OptionCommand]

Nothing beats a real analogue filter.

[OptionCommand]

I also think that people have too many options when it comes to ITB production. Cheap plugs and free stuff is everywhere - means peeps go silly getting stuff and never really learning each piece to its fullest potential. Hardware cost money and unless you are loaded, you buy your gear slowly and get to know every aspect of each new purchase (well I do anyway). The DIY hardware scene is really making waves with cheaper hardware in very small packages that sounds amazing. Things like the Shruthi-1 and SammichSID/FM all sound better than software imo and cost less than some VST which is a major win.

[JuanSOLO]

Geez Rave, do you want to be enlightened? I'm not sure anyone will if you dont want to be.

Once upon a time I had a bunch of cool analogue gear, a friend of mine had Live 3 on a Mac Titanium. Once I saw that in action I got hooked. Over the years I completely converted to an all digital rig. I have no regrets. In the last 2 years I have started to make my way back to analogue gear, not completely. I still find Live to be the hub with it's unbeatable flexibility as a mixer and midi driver is still amazing to me.

We all know the convenience/price laptops, plugs ins, and controllers offer in comparison to outboard gear.

One difference is easy to realize. Turn a cut off knob on ANY vst synth, and compare that to turning one on an analogue synth. The difference is crystal clear. I'm not saying one is better, in fact I like the artifacting that digital synths create, but I also like the lack of it that analogue provides.

Analogue gear is passing an electrical current through transitors etc to create a nuance unmatchable by 1's and 0's. For most people they dont give a fuck or cant even hear that difference. For many musicians the fact most dont notice, is enough to stay digital. For me I hear the difference dramatically and since I love music based on subtle nuance, only analogue gear can produce analogue nuance, just as digital gear produces a specific artifacting, which I love as well. For people who are not knob twisting/automation LFO maniacs, SURE it's hard to tell the benefit in comparing VST presets to analogue presets. Computing has come a long way. None of this is news though.

The part I really dig about analogue gear is the one trick pony, limitations and parameters in a simple piece of gear. Where I was once in the belief that more options ment "better" I am now thinking that limitations create great art. My favorite example is George Lucas and Star Wars. He once had a limited budget and created Star Wars, which gave him an unlimited budget and possibilities then he created Phantom Menace. That said, I see this benefit in a piece of analogue. You have limitations, it only does what it does and thats it. With those parameters you create great things and master the tool before you. You are not bogged down by hunting for sounds endlessly, you dial in what you need and GO!

To me there is a beauty in dialing in knobs on analogue gear yet its a wee bit different every time. You cant just punch in numbers and get identical results. It's organic, it electrical, it varies with temperature. It's subtle, it's warm, it's unpredictable, it's messy, and thats great art to me. It lasts forever and dosent get outdated with updates.

I could go on and on. I think both have their benefits, and neither is better than the other, but one is more suited for the job at hand pending user preference.

I will leave you with this.

[simmerdown]

i like hardware that controls software, wish i had some more...oh, no i dont

[Forge.]

...
I will leave you with this.

this

[Rabalder]

I like what JuanSOLO wrote.

Its great to be able to mix digital with analog, software with hardware and find the perfect setup that suit your needs in the best possible way.
But its a jungel! Potentionally a very expensive jungel. Or a cheap one.. Its all up to you. But thats whats so great.

..and of course Live beeing the core of it all. For now..

[heppareppana]

..Hardware cost money and unless you are loaded, you buy your gear slowly and get to know every aspect of each new purchase (well I do anyway). The DIY hardware scene is really making waves with cheaper hardware in very small packages that sounds amazing. Things like the Shruthi-1 and SammichSID/FM all sound better than software imo and cost less than some VST which is a major win.

+1 for the mention of diy hardware!

[Machinesworking]

I bought a Memorymoog 25 years ago for $1200 when I was a teenager.

In 2001 I decided to start buying software besides a copy of MOTU Digital Performer. I bought Reason and Pluggo.
Since then I've spend thousands of dollars on software and computer hardware, only the software that's at the latest version is worth even 70% of what I paid for it, Pluggo got dropped and is showing signs of becoming incompatible with newer versions of DP and Live etc. The computer I'm typing this on sold for about $2,700 when it came out, it's worth maybe $600. All of the software must either be formatted with Automap or the Mackie Control to get away from mousing, 90% of the time it's just mousing (thought Mackie Control is a wonderful thing for Live and DP).

Back to the Memorymoog. Every knob and button on it is labled and solid, it's a well though out interface, programing it is a joy. It's worth about $9,000 now.
Bought an Oberheim Xpander which is a digitally controlled VCO and VCF poly synth with routing like Zebra or other semi modular soft synths. The controls on it are probably the best lay out I've ever used with multiple banks etc. I could sell it today for what I paid for it. Needed some decent monitors, broke down and sold my Poly Evolver DCO synth with analog filters for the same price I paid for it.

I freaking love soft synths don't get me wrong, Reaktor, Zebra, Absynth, Kontakt, AAS, and when I can get the money together MachFive 3, but I love them for their sound, the interface has and probably always will suck ass compared to hardware. Analog might not be your sound, IMO it's dirtier like a tube amp is compared to solid state, and there are some amazing solid state amps, but nothing beats a tube amp if you're a guitar player.

I love software, but I can't ever see a day when I would think that software was superior to hardware, until they come up with a controller that every software manufacture designs a template for that labels all the knobs and sliders so there's not this looking at the computer while I turn a knob to see if it does something business.

But you know what? I hope all of you people get completely convinced that hardware is passe and sell all your analog gear flooding the market. Then maybe I might be able to pick up a Jupiter 8 for under 2K!

[JuanSOLO]

Maschines makes another good point. I could by Dave Smith Tempest once, and the value would either increase or maintain, over YEARS. The Laptop I bought less than a year ago will decrease in value soon and progress fast.

Live beeing the core of it all. For now..

Yeah I have been thinking about how I could ditch my Laptop altogether, but Live has spoiled me somewhat. I see a future where Live is doing nothing other than midi sequencing, and pattern storage, preset recall, etc. No audio processing. A Live set with a shit ton of modulation clips, LFO's, sending sequences to outboard gear. My CPU would idle at like 8% even with an older Laptop. I could use 1 controller to dial that stuff in Live, and not really need to check the Laptops screen considering I could get LED feedback to a controller. If I could get a cool analogue mixer with a bunch of sends, maybe even with automation capabilities, YES.

As far as Analogue gear being less convenient to set up, thats not true at all when I think about it. Whether it's analogue gear or digital, I have always built my self custom cases where everything stays plugged in the way I like it. It might be heavy, and I need help carrying it up and down stairs, but it only takes me 5 mins to set up. I have like 3 plugs, Left Right and AC.

[rsaulo]

I can agree that analog "sounds" better then digital, but it's a discussion that people can disagree too...
Not everyone can identify the difference, to be honest, 99% of the listeners don't give a shit.

It's the same that compare analog turntables to an digital CDJ, maybe you can tell that it's a difference, but the crowd only want to have a good time.

With I have figured out years ago is that the KISS principle really is the key to success, but you cannot blame a tool just because you cannot focus on the main purpose of the job or hobby, that's CREATE MUSIC!!! It's that where hardware helps, you simply cannot lost your self with thousands of choices just because you don't have many choices, with in digital world it's exactly the opposite.

Imagine if you have only ONE computer, 100% OFFLINE with only ONE Soft Synth, ONE DAW e only ONE midi controller, I can tell you will be much more "creative" than wasting your fu&%$@! time with 3 or 4 DAWs, 10+ soft synths, etc

Oh, and NO forums too, to listen people saying everyday that new gears is on the market..

My 0,02

[JuanSOLO]

I can agree that analog "sounds" better then digital,

I think your the first to put it like that in this thread. "Better" is relative/subjective, I prefer "different" because it's no doubt different.

I hear people make these points about listeners and what listeners notice, yet I have never felt driven to make music based on audience. I make music because I am addicted to "making" what I want to make, obsessed by sculpting something "I" have in mind, hence what "I" hear is of most importance in my process, what others hear is just a result of that.

[freshdrumma]

i don't care about the listener, i care about what makes me feel good.

software manufacture reply i had : Sorry, we are not planning on coding ...... universal at any time.
how cool is this after you spent some money on something? my juno got broken few times but still find some one in town able to fix it!

back to my tape machine ...

[rsaulo]

I think your the first to put it like that in this thread. "Better" is relative/subjective, I prefer "different" because it's no doubt different.

Yes, different is a "better" word.

I hear people make these points about listeners and what listeners notice, yet I have never felt driven to make music based on audience. I make music because I am addicted to "making" what I want to make, obsessed by sculpting something "I" have in mind, hence what "I" hear is of most importance in my process, what others hear is just a result of that.

Agreed, the point is that some people use some kind of gear just because they read somewhere that it's better even if they does not hear any difference. If you have poor monitors for example, doesn't matter if you are digital or analog, you will sound like shit anyway, and sometimes the digital may add a different colour to the sound, and this can be better, or not, or wherever....

[starving student]

But you know what? I hope all of you people get completely convinced that hardware is passe and sell all your analog gear flooding the market. Then maybe I might be able to pick up a Jupiter 8 for under 2K!

^this.

i have a tiny roland rs-09 cost me 200 bucks, the difference between it and every softsynth I use is like night and day. It's just Creamy.

[JAMM]

i have used a lot off hardware gear and synthesizers but have no regrets swithing to computers and vst,s. Only thing is that the old analog syntheziers looked great.