Something to make all of you sound designers think

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ekord123
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Something to make all of you sound designers think

Post by ekord123 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 10:57 pm

Hey guys,
I'm working on a recording project. In this piece, I want to create from scratch the way that it would sound from a first person perspective if you were walking into a noisy dance club from an alleyway. I already have the music down, I have samples of footsteps, and a door opening, and some cars.

how would you guys approach this? I took the footsteps, and used a mid/side processing band so that the side had a lot of reverb (you would hear your footsteps underneath of you, and reverberations would be panned). I'm not sure what reverb setting would be ideal for "alleyway".

also, Im using a low pass filter to so that only the "thumping" escapes the club up untill the moment that the door opens. I'm worried that it sounds too much like a filter when I raise the cuttoff. any ideas?


I realize that this is a more obscure project, but any help would really be appreciated... cheers!

oddstep
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Re: Something to make all of you sound designers think

Post by oddstep » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:07 pm

could you just switch the filter off or cut from a filtered audio to an unfiltered version of the same audio. there would be a boost in volume as well as the lpf disappearing. maybe a short saturation/or +8 db brickwall limiting crunch that tapers off to nothing... to simulate that smack in the face effect of suddenly being subjected to a soundsystem.

TheUriah
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Re: Something to make all of you sound designers think

Post by TheUriah » Sat Feb 18, 2012 11:11 pm

I would do a few things.

1. Make sure the Q or resonance of the filter is set to 0. (no peak at all)

2. The curve of the filter should also be relatively shallow. (maybe 12db)

3. The music inside should also have some reverb on it, which would become louder as you "enter" the room.

4. There's also gotta be another modifier of some kind that effects how the music sounds coming out of a door. Like, the filter can take care of the door being closed to open, but there's also another quality that will change as you move from listening to a room in an alley through a door to being inside the room itself. Perhaps, aside from of course the volume change in the music itself, it's a transition of the reverb from strongly the alley (which the music SHOULD be playing into as well), to strongly the room inside reverb itself.

EDIT:

Also, other thoughts:

- The alleyway will likely have a pretty short decay, but likely very bright reverb since it's likely all brick and or concrete walls directly facing eachother at a short distance.

- That would also probably create not only a reverb, but a bit of echo as well.

- This isn't really obscure. It's sound design! Remember too about sound design...less is often more. You don't often think too much about the sound of your footsteps in the alley, so if what you're designing is gonna smack the person in the face with the sound of "footsteps in an alley!", then it's going to ruin the illusion. The best sound design is scarcely noticed at all.

Muzik 4 Machines
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Re: Something to make all of you sound designers think

Post by Muzik 4 Machines » Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:27 am

to add, when you walk and say the club is on your right, the thumpink would be lo passed and stronger to the right, when the door opens and the subject faces the door and enter the club, the panning should go from left side to almost mono center(full range) with sides still semi filtered to emulate the hallway sound still present, and when you cross the door the panning should go larger with the club ambiance kicking in (maybe also have some club noises (crowd talking, glass clinking)

also the opening of the no resonance filter, try using a non linear curve, like the door trajectorythat will give a lot of opening in the first part of the "fade" and then just a bit more as the door opens more


just my 2 cents

Mr D
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Re: Something to make all of you sound designers think

Post by Mr D » Sun Feb 19, 2012 7:56 am

This how i'd do it:

I'd just go to a club and record it with a hand-held recorder. Having a DJ mate would help. It'll sound way more realistic and there would be a greater contrast when you switch to the full-range sound.

Tone Deft
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Re: Something to make all of you sound designers think

Post by Tone Deft » Sun Feb 19, 2012 8:11 am

go out into the real world and record it. post that here and we'll go from there to hear.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"


TheUriah
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Re: Something to make all of you sound designers think

Post by TheUriah » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:07 am

Mr D wrote:This how i'd do it:

I'd just go to a club and record it with a hand-held recorder. Having a DJ mate would help. It'll sound way more realistic and there would be a greater contrast when you switch to the full-range sound.
Perhaps, but there's a reason that movie and tv producers rarely use location audio...

nuxnamon
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Re: Something to make all of you sound designers think

Post by nuxnamon » Sun Feb 19, 2012 10:47 am

TheUriah wrote:
Mr D wrote:This how i'd do it:

I'd just go to a club and record it with a hand-held recorder. Having a DJ mate would help. It'll sound way more realistic and there would be a greater contrast when you switch to the full-range sound.
Perhaps, but there's a reason that movie and tv producers rarely use location audio...
it's because they use audioease speakerphone plug-in..

Hermanus
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Re: Something to make all of you sound designers think

Post by Hermanus » Sun Feb 19, 2012 1:31 pm

Mr D wrote:This how i'd do it:

I'd just go to a club and record it with a hand-held recorder. Having a DJ mate would help. It'll sound way more realistic and there would be a greater contrast when you switch to the full-range sound.
Imagine... by doing this you'll end with a horror to be resynced with the project.
And you have to find a DJ friend who agrees to play your unfinished project on stage while you record.
That can slow you down for 2weeks at least.

Real sound design is being a sound illusionist, making you believe what it's not real.

The filter way is the way man, don't just play with the dry/wet setting, rather use chain device with one filtered and the other dry sound then slide from filtered chain to the other clean one.
In fact you could use both, playing with the filter freq while the slide to the dry sound happens.
For the details, it's up to you
just ideas

cheers

TheUriah
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Re: Something to make all of you sound designers think

Post by TheUriah » Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:23 pm

nuxnamon wrote:
TheUriah wrote:
Mr D wrote:This how i'd do it:

I'd just go to a club and record it with a hand-held recorder. Having a DJ mate would help. It'll sound way more realistic and there would be a greater contrast when you switch to the full-range sound.
Perhaps, but there's a reason that movie and tv producers rarely use location audio...
it's because they use audioease speakerphone plug-in..
What does that even mean?

Forge.
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Re: Something to make all of you sound designers think

Post by Forge. » Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:47 pm

TheUriah wrote:...
- The alleyway will likely have a pretty short decay, but likely very bright reverb since it's likely all brick and or concrete walls directly facing eachother at a short distance.

- That would also probably create not only a reverb, but a bit of echo as well.
yes - I was going to say a higher pre-delay setting
TheUriah wrote:- This isn't really obscure. It's sound design! Remember too about sound design...less is often more. You don't often think too much about the sound of your footsteps in the alley, so if what you're designing is gonna smack the person in the face with the sound of "footsteps in an alley!", then it's going to ruin the illusion. The best sound design is scarcely noticed at all.
+1

Foley artists don't usually go for ultra "realistic" sounds - they are more interested in the illusion of the sound - such as coconut halves for horses, or scraping a pole and then hacking into a cabbage to create a guillotine

then you get really spun out guys like Alan Splet (David Lynch's sound designer) who recorded weird shit like worms in sand with really sensitive PZM mics and pitched them down... but then he was working on pictures like Dune or Eraserhead. ;-)

regarding the door opening - I also thought a use of panning - but where there is a clear distinction between the center, in which the door is opening from right to left, then the sides where the sound is still filtered, so the brightness is only in the center. Maybe a mid/side EQ.

But even there, that could be over thinking it and maybe not necessary for the 'illusion'.

BoahShit
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Re: Something to make all of you sound designers think

Post by BoahShit » Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:38 pm

dont worry about the door opening, because the bouncer will not let you in....

Forge.
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Re: Something to make all of you sound designers think

Post by Forge. » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:21 pm

BoahShit wrote:dont worry about the door opening, because the bouncer will not let you in....
QUOTED FOR TRUTH!

we all way off. This here is the truth. Fuck everything, it's all shit. Don't bother. Just don't worry about it.

:lol:

bicarbone
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Re: Something to make all of you sound designers think

Post by bicarbone » Mon Feb 20, 2012 2:43 pm

Gentle filter, volume, reverb and foley (footsteps and ambience in the alley: wind? distant traffic? people passing by?)

I would try to design it "backwards": how does it sound inside the club (PA, reverb, crowd chatter). When I think it's realistic, I'd figure out how that sound would be percieved in front of the door and further back in the alley, playing with volume, muffling the sound a bit with a touch of reverb that would match outdoor ambience foley.

I would be cautious with panning as it can quickly sound unnatural.
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