How precise does adsr need to between sub and bass?

[moonpie]

I have a couple of softsynths which sound great, but lack a clean sine wave oscillator to create sub bass. Diva, Tyrell, some reaktor synths etc.. (god I wish prism had a sine wave generator!) I do have problems setting the adsr when the bass and sub arent from the same instrument. They wont be exact, the attack might be off, one might decay a little sooner, or the release might be slightly longer, even with identical settings. I could drive myself mad trying to sync them up exactly, even by ear its infuriating because they simply wont in my experience. I use Massive for my sub bass. So - is this a no-no? Should you always try to use the same synth - and how 'different' can the bass and sub be adsr wise for a good/subtle sub bass effect?

Should sub adsr be "compressed"/ flat - i.e. not decay with the original bass and pretty much no big transient? The reason I ask this is I seem to get more consistent results leaving the sharp transient to the bassline and leaving sine plain.

[moonpie]

Bump

[aradder]

I never even thought about this. I like my subs to have a very short attack and a little bit of a release time, such as you'd hear out of a bass guitar. This is completely independent of whatever envelope I am using on my main bass. I think you may be overthinking it. Hardly anyone can hear the attack or release of a sub. That's what the main bass is for, anyway.

[ra78]

+ 1 agree with arrader

[moonpie]

I never even thought about this. I like my subs to have a very short attack and a little bit of a release time, such as you'd hear out of a bass guitar. This is completely independent of whatever envelope I am using on my main bass. I think you may be overthinking it. Hardly anyone can hear the attack or release of a sub. That's what the main bass is for, anyway.

Oh! This does make a massive diff to my approach then - I thought they had to sync perfectly. Thanks - this is pretty vital info.

Then what about legato - do you have a sub bass to start the envelope again on every note, or do you want smooth legato. Same with pitchbends? But - yeah - if what youre saying is standard practice to have them slightly independant then I guess it doesnt make that much diff.

[ruseinator]

try layering up several sub basses from your different synths. if you have operator that creates nice clean sounding subs. mess around with attack, pitch envelopes, release etc so one some attacks later or falls quicker than the others also as long as the freq rance is correct you shouldn't have a problem

hope this helps

[sunray]

are you sure that the envelops are your problem? can't imagine that a difference of a couple of ms on the env settings makes it impossible to bring the two synths together - espcially on the bass/sub-bass, where you don't really hear, but only feel most of the spectrum.

The problem i would have with 2 synths instead of 2 osc in one synth: how to sync them? on most osc's you can define how it syncs with others on the synth, e.g. makes sure that all start the same time, at the same possition on the wavetable, ect. There are filters, waveshapers, ... a lot stuff that that causes phase shifting, so i would be more worried about to get interferences because the two synths don't know about each other but shall create a composed signal - might need a lot of EQ'ing/Filtering work to bring them thogether nicely.