Punchy kicks?

[eddiex]

just a thought....what kind of headphones or monitors do you have? i just recently bought some decent headphones and an alright soundcard, now i can hear stuff that i couldn't hear before (like low end) because my listening devices were dookie.

[Tenshi]

There's nothing wrong in processing the dynamics of a sample.

My issue isnt with the idea of compressing anything, including samples.

Its that 'add a compressor' is like generic advice given to people when they put together a percussion track, but if the percussion track is made from samples taken from a library or another track... what exactly is the compressor expected to do?

Magic, I guess.

I just see a lot of tutorials explaining how to make drum tracks or kick drums and people always say stick a compressor in, most of the time without any clear idea of why. You use a compressor to change the dynamics of the thing. A compressor can make a kick drum punchy or dull, or knocky or squashed or whatever.

[Nokatus]

You use a compressor to change the dynamics of the thing. A compressor can make a kick drum punchy or dull, or knocky or squashed or whatever.

Yep. I agree. I thought you meant that there is no point in putting a compressor on a library sample or something sampled from another track (which is still the idea one can get from this):

but if the percussion track is made from samples taken from a library or another track... what exactly is the compressor expected to do?

Magic, I guess.

But yeah, again, I agree with the notion of the default "add a compressor" advice being futile if one doesn't understand what to expect and what to achieve by compressing in the first place.

However, the source of the actual sample obviously doesn't matter: if you have a kick that comes from a library, for example, and you know it's just the kick you're after BUT you want to, say, give its attack a bit more snap, it's a perfectly valid approach to use a compressor with the suitable settings, no matter where the kick originated.

[Tenshi]

Sure.

I would recommend not using a compressor but rather de-construct the kick.

Find one sample that has the bottom end you like, low pass it. Find another than has a click you like, add a fast delay to its envelope. Layer the two.

Then you can directly control the click and boom characteristics without having to go via compression. You can even limit each one on its own. You can add distortion to just the thunk. All kinds of stuff.

[Nokatus]

I would recommend not using a compressor but rather de-construct the kick.

Yes, a compressor is just one tool in one's selection. However, in my opinion a general recommendation of not using it is just as peculiar as a default recommendation of slapping it on by default. It's all about what you're dealing with in any specific case.

Then you can directly control the click and boom characteristics without having to go via compression. You can even limit each one on its own. You can add distortion to just the thunk. All kinds of stuff.

Absolutely. And sometimes you might even compress just the thunk, using settings that bring out its sustain juuuust a little bit more ...

Disclaimer: I don't compress kicks as a be-all end-all solution, haha. I'm just trying to put things in perspective. Very often I'll go for an envelope approach when messing with any amplitude changes in percussive one-shot samples. Either in a "regular" sampler plugin or something dedicated (like Nerve).

[Kenny Mac]

making your kick punch through the mix should be a easy process why the hell does everyone have a different answer for it??!! I DUPLICATE MY TRACK ADD UTILITY TO THE KICK BEFORE DUPLICATING AND TRY PUSH THE GAIN UP AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE AS LONG AS ITS NOT RED LINING, THEN YOU DUPICATE THE KICK TRACK, AND GROUP THE TWO TRACKS THEN SIDECHAIN EVERYTHING TO THE KICK GROUP TRACK.
THATS WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING WHICH DOES GIVE YOU A PUNCHY KICK BUT NOTT SURE ITS RIGHT PROCEEDOR AS I HAVE ONLY BEEN PRODUCING FOR A YEAR.

[jestermgee]

making your kick punch through the mix should be a easy process why the hell does everyone have a different answer for it??!! I DUPLICATE MY TRACK ADD UTILITY TO THE KICK BEFORE DUPLICATING AND TRY PUSH THE GAIN UP AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE AS LONG AS ITS NOT RED LINING, THEN YOU DUPICATE THE KICK TRACK, AND GROUP THE TWO TRACKS THEN SIDECHAIN EVERYTHING TO THE KICK GROUP TRACK.
THATS WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING WHICH DOES GIVE YOU A PUNCHY KICK BUT NOTT SURE ITS RIGHT PROCEEDOR AS I HAVE ONLY BEEN PRODUCING FOR A YEAR.

Whoh, Someone put a compressor on this dude, your comment's pushing far into the red.

Reason there are "so many" recommendations because like most things in the arts, there are often more than a single way to achieve the same result and also depending on the actual overall track, sometimes you need a different approach. Half the fun is learning the processes and how things affect things. It makes you better at understanding how sound works which is a life time learning curve.

I use compressors sometimes, I also sometimes multi-layer my kicks. Sometimes I use a pre defined sample or sample it from a song I like, sometimes I use Toontracks or battery. I sometimes add sidechaining and busses for sub, track, drums etc, sometimes it doesn't need it. Sometimes I leave it raw for a "live or real" sound, sometimes I throw a bunch of different effects on there just because I have them and I should use them. Sometimes I couldn't be assed at all and I just use a loop. I will normally always start with compressors and EQ off and level though and work from there as I feel the need.

One comment which is simple and often the best is start with the elements you want to push through then bring everything up to that level. This is easier with an outbound mixer but i'll often get so far into a track, loose the thing I wanted "out front" so turn everything down and start again. Of course having some good gear that can replicate what you need is also key.

If there was a one shot simple solution answer, it would be a plugin and everyone would just use that.

[Lojik]

making your kick punch through the mix should be a easy process why the hell does everyone have a different answer for it??!! I DUPLICATE MY TRACK ADD UTILITY TO THE KICK BEFORE DUPLICATING AND TRY PUSH THE GAIN UP AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE AS LONG AS ITS NOT RED LINING, THEN YOU DUPICATE THE KICK TRACK, AND GROUP THE TWO TRACKS THEN SIDECHAIN EVERYTHING TO THE KICK GROUP TRACK.
THATS WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING WHICH DOES GIVE YOU A PUNCHY KICK BUT NOTT SURE ITS RIGHT PROCEEDOR AS I HAVE ONLY BEEN PRODUCING FOR A YEAR.

Turning the gain up on a sample without changing the characteristics is a false economy and is basically a waste of time unless the sample is too quiet to hear. It will sound better because the ears percieve louder as better, but you might as well just turn your speakers up. Assuming you are going for a 'loud' in your face sound - what that means is having the kick loud in relation to eveything else in the mix. Pushing it to 0dB by itself will just eat up your head room and make it harder to mix the rest of the track.

I suggest looking up gain staging.

With regards to punchy kicks, I find a lot of use using the API 2500 on indivudal samples, it really helps bring out the nice punchy 'click' on kicks and snares - other compressors don't work as well for individual samples though I find.

[jlgrimes]

Im having a hard time with my drums. I layered the drums on a single track multiple times and it tends to peak out the master volume. And im still not getting the punchy kicks that i want. I tried to make another duplicated drum track, and that did help quite a bit, but its still peaking and not sounding how i really want it to. Any tips for putting some meat on the drums?

As the previous person suggested, it normally comes down to choosing the right sample, but it also depends on genre as different styles of music have a different sound in mind.

Another big thing is making sure kick isn't masked in arrangement. Basslines, low synths, and even midrange instruments can mask your kick so EQ is a big thing as well.


While layering is an effective tool to getting a phat kick, it can also rob punchyness if done wrong. Bass frequencies often mask other bass frequencies out so care must be chosen when layering kicks to pitch of kicks, filtering, phase relationships. Also kicks can be layered with high frequency sounds such as high hats, percussion, sound effects usually much easier than layering a kick for punch.

[Toby Emerson]

We have a bunch of free kicks available here from our Monster Kicks & Leviathan pack:
www.blackoctopus-sound.com/free-downloads
Lots of users describe them as punchy so maybe these might be what you are looking for.

[Shift Gorden]

Im having a hard time with my drums. I layered the drums on a single track multiple times and it tends to peak out the master volume. And im still not getting the punchy kicks that i want. I tried to make another duplicated drum track, and that did help quite a bit, but its still peaking and not sounding how i really want it to. Any tips for putting some meat on the drums?

As the previous person suggested, it normally comes down to choosing the right sample, but it also depends on genre as different styles of music have a different sound in mind.

Another big thing is making sure kick isn't masked in arrangement. Basslines, low synths, and even midrange instruments can mask your kick so EQ is a big thing as well.


While layering is an effective tool to getting a phat kick, it can also rob punchyness if done wrong. Bass frequencies often mask other bass frequencies out so care must be chosen when layering kicks to pitch of kicks, filtering, phase relationships. Also kicks can be layered with high frequency sounds such as high hats, percussion, sound effects usually much easier than layering a kick for punch.

This is great advice right here. You can also layer multiple kicks with different EQ settings, too. That way you can control low/mid/high ends. I think "highs" like hats or clicks can add "punch" for sure.

[The_Subject]

Kenny Mac wrote:
making your kick punch through the mix should be a easy process why the hell does everyone have a different answer for it??!! I DUPLICATE MY TRACK ADD UTILITY TO THE KICK BEFORE DUPLICATING AND TRY PUSH THE GAIN UP AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE AS LONG AS ITS NOT RED LINING, THEN YOU DUPICATE THE KICK TRACK, AND GROUP THE TWO TRACKS THEN SIDECHAIN EVERYTHING TO THE KICK GROUP TRACK.
THATS WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING WHICH DOES GIVE YOU A PUNCHY KICK BUT NOTT SURE ITS RIGHT PROCEEDOR AS I HAVE ONLY BEEN PRODUCING FOR A YEAR.


Whoh, Someone put a compressor on this dude, your comment's pushing far into the red.

Please!


I go for two distinct kick types in my music, a metal "clicky" kick that sounds good at 16ths and 32s but also has a bit of beef for singular hits, and an industrial/techno deep sub punch that can do more 4ttFloor kinda stuff. The two have to sound good together, but they're distinctly different

The first thing I've found in years that's good for using just one technique/tool for both is Heavyocity - Damage.

Even using this I apply a slight set of effects/compressors but also tend to have a drum group track with another set of slight effects inc compression. I find using the two effects, and keeping both sets fairly unobtrusive, makes for a subtler/dryer more live/organic feel that I need to shy away from just being "noise", every drum gets its unique touch, but all the drums have a "same kit" feel.

Also great for mixing as people have said already, get the more important bits where you want them and bring everything else around it, I find having the separate racks of FX brings volume knobs, so its easier to mix the drums around the kick, then the whole percussion section against the track.

Prior to this I tried loads of things, mostly sampling and NI Massive (as it was what I had access to - not because it's the best tool for the job, but if you can use it too and want to try, watch this videos, the tips on envelope volume modulation totally change your results https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9G8C6xUMLA).

[beats me]

https://www.sonicacademy.com/products/kick-2

BOOM

[Shift Gorden]

https://www.sonicacademy.com/products/kick-2

BOOM

Mate, I was gonna post that and forgot. I got Kick 2 a couple of weeks ago and freaking love it. It's flipping amazing. You got it?

[beats me]

https://www.sonicacademy.com/products/kick-2

BOOM

Mate, I was gonna post that and forgot. I got Kick 2 a couple of weeks ago and freaking love it. It's flipping amazing. You got it?

Yup. I also have used Kick 1 and Big Kick. Kind of funny how even something seemingly simple can still follow “You think that is a kick plugin?? THIS is a kick plugin!” competition and improvements. Kick 3 is going to blow our mind!