The basics, head is spinning

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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arriflex
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The basics, head is spinning

Post by arriflex » Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:58 pm

Hey gang, I've gone through the basic Live lessons, but am having trouble putting it all together workflow wise.

Essentially I am trying to record audio, trim and edit it (two or 3 tracks usually, not simultaneously) and get it loaded into sessions (scenes?)- then augment with drums, effects, samplers, etc.

I am having trouble keeping everything in sync, as well as having the bits stay looped while in session view. I'm also unsure of the proper way to get recorded audio tracks into session view. Even though I record to the metronome things get wildly out of sync when played back.......sometimes. Maybe this has to do with the warp function?

Eventually I plan on using these base sessions as playback for live performances, augmenting with vocals and live loops from stage instruments- hence doing this in live.

Does anyone have a basic workflow tutorial on getting audio clips recorded, edited, staying synced, loaded into the session view? Again, I know the basics, arming tracks, setting inputs- its the overall workflow that I am having trouble with.

Thanks!

patrick.olson86
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Re: The basics, head is spinning

Post by patrick.olson86 » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:39 pm

You should be able to record in real time, meaning, no warp issues when played back. You might have some latency issues which would be fixed by your sampling rate under Live's preferences. The lower sample rate, the more fluid recording is. I have mine set to 512 I believe? keep moving it down until you have no lag or latency.

Otherwise, you can warp your recorded audio for it to sync up. There are a lot of great youtube videos. You'll probably have to watch a few as each person warps differently. Once you get this down then everything else should fall into place.

simmerdown
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Re: The basics, head is spinning

Post by simmerdown » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:40 pm

i always rec directly to session...you can also Global record into both views at once...

session will keep things in sync very nicely

H20nly
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Re: The basics, head is spinning

Post by H20nly » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:49 pm

arriflex wrote:Does anyone have a basic workflow tutorial on getting audio clips recorded, edited, staying synced, loaded into the session view? Again, I know the basics, arming tracks, setting inputs- its the overall workflow that I am having trouble with.
have you tried the built in tutorials? they're pretty decent.

also, there are some videos on the Ableton website... if that still doesn't sort you out, youtube is your friend. :)
LoopStationZebra wrote:it's like a hipster commie pinko manifesto. Rambling. Angry. Nearly divorced from all reality; yet strangely compelling with a ring of truth.

moonpie
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Re: The basics, head is spinning

Post by moonpie » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:58 pm

arriflex wrote:Hey gang, I've gone through the basic Live lessons, but am having trouble putting it all together workflow wise.

Essentially I am trying to record audio, trim and edit it (two or 3 tracks usually, not simultaneously) and get it loaded into sessions (scenes?)- then augment with drums, effects, samplers, etc.

I am having trouble keeping everything in sync, as well as having the bits stay looped while in session view. I'm also unsure of the proper way to get recorded audio tracks into session view. Even though I record to the metronome things get wildly out of sync when played back.......sometimes. Maybe this has to do with the warp function?

Eventually I plan on using these base sessions as playback for live performances, augmenting with vocals and live loops from stage instruments- hence doing this in live.

Does anyone have a basic workflow tutorial on getting audio clips recorded, edited, staying synced, loaded into the session view? Again, I know the basics, arming tracks, setting inputs- its the overall workflow that I am having trouble with.

Thanks!
Getting a good workflow is something that takes time with live - Im still figuring out the best way to approach things.

Generally - your problem is this - arrangement view is more usually the last step in producing a song. (massive exceptions but - thats the way I think of it) - so imagine whenever you press play in session view - that it will play nicely from the 1st beat. But arrangement view will begin to play simultaneously - and itll play from where ever the cursor was last (which mightent be on the 1st beat). Hence your sync problems. Always consider arrangement view as the "master" track. Its going to start whenever you start a clip in session view - and can lead to some very confusing results.

I would change your workflow slightly to this -

Record your audio in session view. Then - Drag it to arrangement view to edit, THEN drag it back to session view (making sure the clip and loop bracket is the correct bar lenght you want). Then remove the audio track from arrangement view leaving it blank.

I leave working in arrangement view as long as possible - as once you start creating songs in it - it can be frustrating and difficult to move back into session view. Try create as many of the parts and sections as you can is session view first. When you make the jump to recording your session set in arrangement view - If you want to make big edits and work in session view again, scrap the tracks in arrangement view (or simply start recording clips after where your original layout finished in a blank space.)

This is just my workflow - definitely the relationship between session view and arrangement view was the most difficult and most frustrating thing to understand when I started out with ableton. I got so annoyed with it I left composing to session view for a long while. But once you figure it out - it does make sense.

Advice with recording audio in session view - when you record an audio track - finish recording by pressing the clip stop or track stop button (not the master stop button at the top) as this will end the recording on the beat (making it much easier to edit later).



Another thing that might be affecting sync with metronome is buffer size - depending on your soundcard - you want to record with as small a buffer as possible - yours might be at the default 512, try bring it down to 128 or 256 and see if that helps. Change it in Preferences/audio, under latency.

Theo Void
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Re: The basics, head is spinning

Post by Theo Void » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:03 pm

These days I'm mostly in the box but I still record vocals and a little guitar now and then. But when recording, depending on your audio interface, you will have a little latency. This can be fixed with the sample rate buffer size in preferences but the lower you go, the more cpu intensive it becomes. So, this may be the cause of your sync issues. I'm guessing it probably is. So, if thats the case you should read up on "warping." Once you get the hang of it it becomes quicker and quicker. Usually you'll only need a few warp markers to get the audio in sync w/ the tempo. Use the metronome to sync your recorded audio when warping.

I'm running a brand-new Macbook pro w/ a quad-core i7 and 8 gb RAM and I still have latency so when I record something I usually always have to warp. It usually only consists of moving the start point back a tiny bit. As long as your on time w your recording(use the metronome or a click track while recording,) the warping process should be super simple. Just move back the start point.

Also, if your planning on using these clips in a live setting, You'll want to have it all on time. If anything is looping, make sure the clips are the same length.
There is quite a bit of preparation involved in setting up a live performance. It can be done though.

So ya, I'd become a warp master if I were u

Theo Void
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Re: The basics, head is spinning

Post by Theo Void » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:06 pm

Also, I agree w/ above poster. It takes time to develop your own workflow. Mine has moved arrangement. I do a lot of micro edits and re-sampling. I prefer to work w/ audio. I build the basis of the sounds in session but the real work gets done in arrangement. Thats where it actually becomes a song.

arriflex
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Re: The basics, head is spinning

Post by arriflex » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:17 pm

Ok, so I use the launchpad to start recording, to the metronome. I trim the audio in the sample editor tot he part of the take I like, setting the 1.1.1 and the loop points.

Now when I use launch pad to record the second track, also using metronome, it is wildly off the metronome beat, and I have to record without it.......any ideas?

arriflex
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Re: The basics, head is spinning

Post by arriflex » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:45 pm

Also, I add an ezdrummer groove, it is locked to the metronome, but the audio tracks as stated before, are not- though they were recorded to the metronome, tightly I might add :)

simmerdown
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Re: The basics, head is spinning

Post by simmerdown » Wed Mar 07, 2012 11:53 pm

what is your launch quantize setting..... top bar, middle-ish?

arriflex
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Re: The basics, head is spinning

Post by arriflex » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:15 am

1 Bar.....next to the Pencil, right?


So Live auto quantizes audio recordings? Could that be whats causing the issues? It's warping around the wrong beats to quantize or something?

arriflex
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Re: The basics, head is spinning

Post by arriflex » Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:01 am

Any thoughts fellas?

DM1000
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Re: The basics, head is spinning

Post by DM1000 » Sat Mar 24, 2012 4:44 pm

arriflex
do u live in the Toronto area ?
I play keys and tour using ableton all the time. Also play live and sing with it using an apc40 controller and an mpk61. I think I could help you figure out your workflow situation and get you setup properly so u can play if thats what you're looking for ?
if so email me allmatisse@gmail.com

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