Using a Benchmark DAC1 USB as the sole audio interface?

[pedrogent]

I had a cheap and cheerful M-Audio FireWire Solo for about six years. I played around in Live a little but in the main I found myself simply using it as a way to connect powered monitors to whatever computer I was using for the sole purpose of audio playback. When it finally bit the dust last year, I figured that because I was really only ever listening to music I'd be better served by a good DAC.

So I got a Benchmark DAC1 USB and I was utterly blown away by the sound. All the usual things that come with such a nice piece of gear were noted: tight low end, superb stereo imaging, etc., etc.

Now the production urge has returned and I wonder if it's possible to just use the Benchmark DAC1 as the only audio interface, forgoing a traditional sound card. (I have no need for inputs FWIW.)

For those not familiar with the DAC1, there are a few digital input options, notably USB, coaxial and optical. The USB is of the 1.1 flavour which handles playback of 96/24 and no drivers need to be installed. That's how it's hooked up now, but I could attach the DAC1 to my iMac using the optical out.

Is what I propose even possible? If so, will it be usable? Is someone using this set-up? What does getting a traditional sound card afford me (better latency, better stability, better sound, etc.)?

If I were to get a sound card, I'd want to still use the DAC1 in the monitor chain because the sound is astoundingly good.

Thanks in advance.

[shuutobi]

Yes... and don't use the optical out on the iMac to the DAC1, you'll be at the mercy of the iMac internal audio as far as latency goes.

I'd like to know what kind of latency you get on the output of that beast. I considered one at one point, but for price reasons, I opted for the Sound Devices USBpre2, which unfortunately has some issues in a windows environment still to this day. (Not a single ASIO driver update)

[pedrogent]

OK, that's good to know. I'll probably re-install Live tomorrow and have a play to see how I go latency-wise.

Would I be correct in thinking that latency is where I'd see the benefit from adding a traditional sound card to this mix? Is there any other area whereby adding a sound card will improve my experience in Live? Or rather: What, exactly, is a sound card doing that a straight DAC isn't?

If I were to get a sound card, I'd like something that's both high-quality (discovering what I'd been missing out on sonically all these years was a real ear-opener for me) yet not too complex. RME Babyface seems to fit the bill in that regard. Is this seen in a good light around here. I'm a bit out of the loop...

[Tarekith]

It's the same thing, soundcards just typically have more inputs and outputs, and those are dedicated to individual instruments like mic's or guitars. The DAC via USB should work fine, I'd doubt the latency on OSX is going to be so high as to be an issue. Lets us know how it goes though!

[icedsushi]

I have an original Benchmark DAC1 without USB (currently selling because I switched to another DAC that would fit better in my rack with what I already have & matches my input chain), but it's a fantastic DAC!

I've used the DAC1 from the optical output of my Motu828mkII for years now. I noticed the difference from the Motu DA converters right away and I think you're going to get a more detailed sound & less jitter than most sound cards out there, until you get into the upper of the high end stuff.

The Motu is great for someone who records a bunch of I/O simultaneously. But I don't need all the I/O of the 828mkII and I have an improved standalone AD for the 2 inputs I use so I'm selling that too now. I hadn't been recording anything externally for awhile, so I had been using the optical output of my Macbook Pro directly with the DAC1 for about 6 months. It sounds great with the built in audio, just as good as it sounded using the optical out from the Motu I'd say. So I didn't miss having a "sound card". I didn't notice any difference in what I could drop Live's buffer size down to.

I can't imagine having NO inputs, that aren't above the quality of the line in on the laptop though & no preamps. I imagine if you need to do some recording, the Benchmark ADC1 would be a great choice & bolt them together in one rack space. You could probably just hook them both up via USB & have each one show up in the I/O menu of Live.

I have this set up with 2 of the Lavry AD/DA units right now. I haven't tried the USB of both of them at the same time yet, but I'm sure it works fine that way. I'd definitely go this route, because most times I only need 2 inputs & outputs.

However there were 3 things that made it necessary for me to have a traditional "sound card":
1.) Direct Monitoring - I need to be able to monitor my input without latency while recording without a hardware mixer in the signal chain.
2.) 4 Outputs - Sometimes I send audio out of my computer, process it through hardware & back in to record again.
3.) Portable Connectivity - For use outside my studio that can be connected to PA systems, mixers, guitars, mics, etc.

So I just got an RME Babyface and I plan to connect my standalone DA/AD with it's optical I/O. I'm trying it out this week.

(PS: if anyone is interested in my DAC1, send me a PM.)

[pedrogent]

Thanks for the input folks. It looks like I may be able to do this with just the DAC then, at least until I can get the cash together for a Babyface or similar. (I'm still worried that I'll be using USB 1.1, when even USB 2 seems to have latency issues. Perhaps this isn't a problem as I'll only be using outputs? We'll see...)

Anyway, I'll re-install Live today and report back on how I go.

[icedsushi]

I wouldn't worry about it, especially since it's only 2 outputs, that's not nearly as much data as running multiple channels simultaneously. I can't imagine for only 2 outputs for it to be much different than USB 2.0, but I could be wrong.

Curious, report back if you can & let us know the lowest you're able to get your buffer with USB vs optical. My DAC1 doesn't have USB but I'll be able to try my Lavry DA11 soon & compare USB vs the optical input smallest buffer size.

[Tarekith]

The Virus TI range can transport 6 channels of audio over USB1.1 at latencies good enough for keybaord playing, shouldn't be an issue just based on the USB 1.1 spec.

[pedrogent]

The Virus TI range can transport 6 channels of audio over USB1.1 at latencies good enough for keybaord playing, shouldn't be an issue just based on the USB 1.1 spec.

Very interesting. Cheers for that.

Installing now. Will get back soon. From the reading I've been doing around the web, it seems a few people would like this question answered...

[pedrogent]

OK, so here's what I know:

I'm using Live 8.2.8. I'm on an iMac 12,2 (Mid 2011 / OS X 10.7.3 / Intel quad-core i5 2.7 GHz / 16 GB RAM / spinning platter HDD). I'm running a Benchmark DAC1 USB via USB 1.1.

In Live's Audio prefs using the Core Audio driver I can simulate (with 80% CPU usage) a 64 sample buffer size/44.1 kHz sample rate. The Overall Latency is 2.95 ms. There are no clicks or pops. Using this buffer size/sample rate I can open the demo Set and playback without breaking a sweat. To test things a little further I added some Audio Effects (flangers, ping pong reverb, saturation) and CPU usage didn't go above 18%. There were no clicks or pops in this 'real world' test either.

If I dial down to a 32 sample buffer size I get no audio at all on the simulation. Subsequently increasing this to 64, 128, 256, etc. leaves me with no sound. So I have to restart Live. Back up to 64 samples and everything's fine again.

So it would appear that that 64 samples is as low as I can go over USB 1.1. That's way lower than I had expected. In fact, I didn't even think it would work at all. Colour me surprised.

It would be interesting to see how this compares with a TOSLINK connection out the back of the iMac. I don't have an optical cable handy but I'll try dig one up. But to be honest, I don't really see any advantage to that approach.

The sound is so much better than what I was used to from the M-Audio. It's immense!