Native Instruments' Remix decks+F1 controller vs. Live & ??

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
runningoutofspace
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:59 am

Re: Native Instruments' Remix decks+F1 controller vs. Live & ??

Post by runningoutofspace » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:55 am

My Serato SL4 pack showed up today and I'm not sure yet if I'm going to return it. I have a few days to consider but I asked myself "what's the problem?". I don't have an answer for that and I can't just say that I'm going to "try" Serato anymore.

One key thing I have to accomplish is trying to map my DB4 for control over Serato like Mixarchitekt's tsi did for Traktor but it could become one hot mess because Serato isn't like Traktor when it comes to midi. In the end, I may hit a brick wall or find work arounds to do what I need to do...but all that jumping around without the assistance of "Sync" could be like runaway horse disaster. I'm talking about looping on tracks when you can express a part of a track with a locked loop that will groove with the other(s). You really get spoiled with that kind of assistance and find this unreal form of expression so addictive but not possible if you have to constantly pull up and pull down things to get them back to whack. No tracks really drift these days or change tempo drastically but can my ideas work in Serato? That's the bit of controversy that always stirs about Sync.

The thought of switching to Serato makes me realize that I might as well just use the CDJs I have and run Live on it's own. Event though it wouldn't lock to the tempo of tracks like the Brige will allow, is this the answer to...

- Continuing on with Traktor and running Live in parallel
or Remix decks and my controllers.

I think the hardest part is that it's seems really logical for Serato to consider implementing some sort of tempo/beat Lock function in their top level software - not just Itch. Forever that has been the argument but really, they should implement it so that Native can't be that much different. They may have a problem on their hands if people like me can't be convinced to switch.
http://www.runningoutofspace.com
Xone:DB4/Xone:K2s; CDJ-2000NXSs & SL-1210 MK5Gs
Live 9Suite/Max 6, Push, Xone:DB2, Rhizome SXE Custom, Sync-Gen Pro II.

The Carpet Cleaner
Posts: 1128
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 2:21 pm
Location: Paris

Re: Native Instruments' Remix decks+F1 controller vs. Live & ??

Post by The Carpet Cleaner » Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:41 pm

runningoutofspace wrote:Update: OK.
This is like a blog now (a bit off topic but still important to what I started with)
I now get what the issue was but Freshfluke wouldn't just come out and say it. It took them to ban me before I knew that

Point 1) Apparently Native Instruments doesn't like it when you say anything that implies why others use Serato
Point 2) Not everyone is a dude...(yeah, I know that)
Point 3) No genre or certain community DJs should be identified with either of the top two DVSs (because NI said so!)

Point 1), I'll get to that.
Point 2), I can agree that everyone is not a "dude" - yeah, I'm wrong when I write that to someone that I don't know is male or female but can you tell if I'm male or female by my name...runningoutofspace, nope...I might actually be 19 strong under one identity and I was saying that to DJFreshfluke who I assumed was a male. I could be wrong in that and it would be wrong if he is a she but what's the point in not telling me different? DJFreshfluke only had to say "I'm a lady Sir" and I would have apologized. By the time I got to that point Freshfluke had derailed the topic way off message to the point where there was an ongoing spat that I didn't want to have going on. I asked Freshfluke to let it go but I got banned from the site for a day with a "1 point infraction" and by the time I regained access the topic it was closed. Which brings me back to.....

Point 1), if Native Instruments isn't cool with me "patronisingly" implying that Serato is used by the hip-hop, rnb, beatjuggling, pop, more urban type of DJs in the community then I can now agree with that. That view differs from what I had previously believed but I'm now understanding why they wanted to drive that home with all the underlying tactics at my expense. The majority of Traktor users are normally identified as "Dance"....nothing wrong with that, I realize that I've actually ignored Native's Scratch/Controller demos over the years - even the ones with Maschine that had a distinct hip-hop feel and personality. So there's all kinds of Traktor users and I'm corrected in thinking that there's any type of genre that should be identified with any particular DVS. They are only right now and part wrong too. Just because NI is showcasing the F1s+Remix decks with Shiftee and Greg Nice (hip hop right?) and they say "we are all free to use what we want" I guess it's now OK to say that's if there's any users out there that are struggling with which DVS will be accepted by "________" community....don't worry about it. Native has now given blanket approval for many things.

Point 3) For the users fed up with Traktor for whatever reason, you should no longer feeling guilty for wanting to switch to Serato because both companies have something to offer now. And this works vice versa.

I'm serious on that. All the gender and genre bashing that I apparently did - it was a hidden-hand process to drive that point home to me. I'm not purposely arrogant or brash or etc., I'm a little blind at knowing who is who because I thought it didn't matter but I also know that you talk in forums to learn something and you learn something only when people offer their points up front. I realize how to be more politically correct when addressing individuals in here because I can see the issues now and how people can use one thing to achieve another end.

IMHO, Native Instruments is showcasing this new stuff to solidify their efforts in reaching out/capturing that other DJ demographic. They missed the boat on Ableton and Serato's integration via the Bridge. They have already been devoting efforts towards showing the DJ world that they are not to be seen as catering to any particular genre or style. I've just ignored the previous hip-hop flavored videos with Traktor, Maschine, S4, X-1, because I didn't have a need to do what they were showcasing. I can agree with them in that aspect that the top two DVSs are now offering something for everyone and no one should feel guilty anymore for lusting over either of them or wanting to switch from one to the other or even...using both to get on with what you need to do.

IMO, the F1+Remix decks were Native's way of leveling the playing field so that no one can say that their DVS is for "Dance". The hard part is that Serato is tied to Rane and there aren't many manufacturers pushing for third party items these days. I'm rethinking my priorities and I guess I'm OK now with longing for a valid reason to use Serato and Advanced HID + the Bridge is pushing towards that end of the DVS...my next effort is to get A&H to put-out some controller assistance for those who use Scratch Live.
Didn't read LOL!

runningoutofspace
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 2:59 am

Re: Native Instruments' Remix decks+F1 controller vs. Live & ??

Post by runningoutofspace » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:55 am

Ha ha. Thanks for re-amplifying the Native Issue. No one will read it but there's some meat in there.
I've made up my mind and moved on.

I've actually decided to keep Serato. I am also hoping Serato and Ableton consider what's at stake with this new Remix Decks and F1 controller stuff.

It's time for Serato to implement a sync type engine/function (in their top level software). It's what will put them at dead heat with Traktor because that (Sync) is what really separates the two and makes Native's offerings more appealing and user friendly to new users.

It's also time for them to implement more controller friendly assistance in Serato so that they can re-introduce Serato as a controller based tool - not just on the Itch Deck and Rane integrated mixer. Re-introduce "the Bridge" to everyone.

It's time for an update. Not everyone will use a Sync-type function in their software but that's OK. According to Native, we can use what we want--there's no stereotype of who uses what so let there be no more excuses for why one DVS appeals to some over the other. Update necessary.
http://www.runningoutofspace.com
Xone:DB4/Xone:K2s; CDJ-2000NXSs & SL-1210 MK5Gs
Live 9Suite/Max 6, Push, Xone:DB2, Rhizome SXE Custom, Sync-Gen Pro II.

The Carpet Cleaner
Posts: 1128
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 2:21 pm
Location: Paris

Re: Native Instruments' Remix decks+F1 controller vs. Live & ??

Post by The Carpet Cleaner » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:12 pm

runningoutofspace wrote:Ha ha. Thanks for re-amplifying the Native Issue. No one will read it but there's some meat in there.
I've made up my mind and moved on.

I've actually decided to keep Serato. I am also hoping Serato and Ableton consider what's at stake with this new Remix Decks and F1 controller stuff.

It's time for Serato to implement a sync type engine/function (in their top level software). It's what will put them at dead heat with Traktor because that (Sync) is what really separates the two and makes Native's offerings more appealing and user friendly to new users.

It's also time for them to implement more controller friendly assistance in Serato so that they can re-introduce Serato as a controller based tool - not just on the Itch Deck and Rane integrated mixer. Re-introduce "the Bridge" to everyone.

It's time for an update. Not everyone will use a Sync-type function in their software but that's OK. According to Native, we can use what we want--there's no stereotype of who uses what so let there be no more excuses for why one DVS appeals to some over the other. Update necessary.
mate you're waiting for an update... while other just plug 'n play. Just saying, I respect your choice.

lethal_pizzle
Posts: 69
Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2011 11:32 pm

Re: Native Instruments' Remix decks+F1 controller vs. Live & ??

Post by lethal_pizzle » Thu Apr 12, 2012 6:39 am

@roos... hey, you should try Traktor! It does all that stuff ;)

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