EQ8 & Auto Filter adding 'Colour' to live set.

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Sibanger
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EQ8 & Auto Filter adding 'Colour' to live set.

Post by Sibanger » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:08 am

Hi,

I've been using EQ8 & Auto Filter in my live sets, but I'm getting anything from 1.5 to 3 db boost in sound which is causing clipping & making the bass sound like shit.
This is when the plugs are in a 'neutral' position.

Anyone using/recommend Filter & EQ plugs that gives a neutral sound until tweaked & are completely stable in a live set ?

Thanks

locojohn
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Re: EQ8 & Auto Filter adding 'Colour' to live set.

Post by locojohn » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:28 am

Sibanger wrote: Anyone using/recommend Filter & EQ plugs that gives a neutral sound until tweaked & are completely stable in a live set ?
Thanks
If you mean 3rd party plugs, then check out FabFilter.

Andrejs
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cheakypawl
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Re: EQ8 & Auto Filter adding 'Colour' to live set.

Post by cheakypawl » Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:30 am

take a read of the "neutral" operations section of the manual.

yes, they colour the sound.

right click on the eq8 and there is an option to enable "high quality".

the real damage is coming from auto filter.

good luck.
OSX 10.13.6, MacBook Pro (15" Mid 2015), Live 9 (I don't like 10).

luddy
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Re: EQ8 & Auto Filter adding 'Colour' to live set.

Post by luddy » Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:10 pm

You're getting a 1.5 - 3 dB boost from EQ8 with all gains set to 0dB and the Qs in the default (0.71) position?!

Are you sure?

-Luddy

tigali
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Re: EQ8 & Auto Filter adding 'Colour' to live set.

Post by tigali » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:10 pm

cheekypaul wrote:take a read of the "neutral" operations section of the manual.

yes, they colour the sound.

right click on the eq8 and there is an option to enable "high quality".

the real damage is coming from auto filter.

good luck.
+1

Sibanger
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Re: EQ8 & Auto Filter adding 'Colour' to live set.

Post by Sibanger » Tue Apr 10, 2012 7:39 am

Thank you for your replies.
luddy wrote:You're getting a 1.5 - 3 dB boost from EQ8 with all gains set to 0dB and the Qs in the default (0.71) position?!

Are you sure?

-Luddy


No luddy. I should have been more specific. :oops:

EQ8 is causing around 1.4db boost, and all gains are set to 0db and Q's are in default position, but the 1st filter has been chosen as a low cut filter with Freq set on 30 Hz. (Yes, it is on High Quality)

I am aware that the Auto Filter is doing most of the boosting in volume. (around + 2.2db)
This is also when using Highpass (lowcut) filter on 26Hz & Q 0.82.

If I have a chain of these, there goes my massive db increase.
These setting are what I would expect to have no increase in volume, as they are low 'cut' fiters. (Please explain why they do if you'd like luddy)

It seems pretty simple, but I can't seem to get around the db increase.

I'm just looking for a 3rd party filter & eq that is totally neutral until I adjust the frequency.

Are there any that do this ? :)

I've heard the sonalksis filter is pretty 'clean'.

Thanks.

ciw
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Re: EQ8 & Auto Filter adding 'Colour' to live set.

Post by ciw » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:06 am

By all means try other filters (fabfilter are nice yes) but, be aware that any eq cut *can* cause a boost in peak levels. Unless you have found a bug then this is likely what is happening.

A signal usually contains multiple frequencies which sometimes add, and sometimes cancel one another. If you 'cut' a frequency which happened to be cancelling a big transient at another frequency then the peak level will increase. (roughly speaking!)

In addition to this most EQs affect phase (all except for linear phase eqs but they have other problems). By shifting the phase of various frequency components you may similarly reveal a spike somewhere which was previously cancelled. As different eqs affect phase in different ways, you may find changing EQ solves the specific problem you have right now, though the new eq could show the same problem when given a different signal.

Have you tried just ignoring the spike and letting the limiter handle it? Sometimes this works fine if it's only a little spike. Otherwise, short of switching eqs, you could try and shift phase across the spectrum somehow, or try to find the offending spike and cut it from the source signal with another eq.

ciw
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Re: EQ8 & Auto Filter adding 'Colour' to live set.

Post by ciw » Tue Apr 10, 2012 11:37 am

Also, if you want stability in a live set, probably safer to stick with live's plugins not VSTs. If you want a neutral sound before they are tweaked, place into a rack and use chain select to bypass the effect when controls are in neutral position.

Sibanger
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Re: EQ8 & Auto Filter adding 'Colour' to live set.

Post by Sibanger » Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:43 pm

Thanks for your explanation ciw.
If you want a neutral sound before they are tweaked, place into a rack and use chain select to bypass the effect when controls are in neutral position.
Yeah, I have tried this, but when it switches on, I get a noticeable volume spike & I'm not really happy with the limiter working so hard.

I'll keep looking around and test other plugs to see if any have a 'cleaner' sound.

I love the Auto Filter for tracking. It just sounds crap in this application.

ciw
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Re: EQ8 & Auto Filter adding 'Colour' to live set.

Post by ciw » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:05 pm

That is weird - I've never had that problem (with the racks) before. Is it just this one mix that causes the problems or does it happen all the time?

If you're trying other plugs have a look at sonnox eq - very clean, my eq of choice and I have used it live without issues.

icedsushi
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Re: EQ8 & Auto Filter adding 'Colour' to live set.

Post by icedsushi » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:09 pm

You probably have the Q for the hipass filter at a setting that's boosting at 30hz. The "default" at .71 doesn't seem quite flat at the cutoff frequency when you switch it to hipass. Try a Q of about .61 instead.

And in regards to the autofilter, could be the same situation there. Additionally, good luck finding a a filter that doesn't change the sound even when it's wide open. Sonalksis Creative Filter was the closest to this I've ever tried & even that was not completely identical to the bypassed sound.
Last edited by icedsushi on Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Sibanger
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Re: EQ8 & Auto Filter adding 'Colour' to live set.

Post by Sibanger » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:41 am

icanseeclearlynowtherainhasgone wrote:lower it.
:lol:

If it was a static increase, this would work. Not so simple.

Sibanger
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Re: EQ8 & Auto Filter adding 'Colour' to live set.

Post by Sibanger » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:47 am

icedsushi wrote:You probably have the Q for the hipass filter at a setting that's boosting at 30hz. The "default" at .71 doesn't seem quite flat at the cutoff frequency when you switch it to hipass. Try a Q of about .61 instead.

And in regards to the autofilter, could be the same situation there. Additionally, good luck finding a a filter that doesn't change the sound even when it's wide open. Sonalksis Creative Filter was the closest to this I've ever tried & even that was not completely identical to the bypassed sound.
Thanks icedsushi, I will play around with the Q setting a little more to see what results I can get.
Funny, with lowpass filter, it has no adverse effect.

Sibanger
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Re: EQ8 & Auto Filter adding 'Colour' to live set.

Post by Sibanger » Wed Apr 11, 2012 3:51 am

ciw wrote:That is weird - I've never had that problem (with the racks) before. Is it just this one mix that causes the problems or does it happen all the time?

If you're trying other plugs have a look at sonnox eq - very clean, my eq of choice and I have used it live without issues.
It's something that's never troubled me before. It seems to happen all the time...now.

Sonnox eq. Will test.

Thanks ciw :)

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