Sampled analogue warmth vs the real thing?

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taffmonster
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Sampled analogue warmth vs the real thing?

Post by taffmonster » Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:06 pm

There are many people of the analogue camp who swear by its phatness and warmth. Having only owned a korg duotron I can't really comment. In the digital arena I've spent many hours with analogue modeling synths, subtractive, additive, fm and granular. When it comes to samples, synth samples in particular I have very little experience ( we'll consider drum samples as something of a special variety).

Not to long ago I purchased the maschine mikro, and more recently the vintage heat pack. I am quite enjoying the bass sounds that came with it.

With today's multi sampling abilities can the sampler fill that void in the digital soundscape where the warmth of something analogue should sit?

I understand samples are limited in that they can't be edited as easily. Filter changes aren't the same as filter changes on the actual synth as the analogue filter is no longer there and so filtering becomes digital, but the question is can they give you that warmth and phatness that everybody talks about despite these limitations.

Warmth or phatness seem to be two terms used a lot by the analogue camp. But to me they are such subjective terms I find it hard to really sum it up in my head. In terms of a track, if it's lacking some warmth or some beef, can't the same results be achieved with a nicely sampled synth ? puremagnetiks retro synths for example?

I'm not talking about the raw unprocessed sound here, I'm talking about the whole kit and kaboodle. When you finish up your track and when everything is summed together is this "warmth and phatness" that people talk about just out of reach for the doers of digital, or is it just as easily achieved via different means and methods?

agent314
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Re: Sampled analogue warmth vs the real thing?

Post by agent314 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:42 pm

For me, 'warm' and 'phat' are the two most overused and empty of meaning terms in music production

Samples can sound great - Trilian is all sampled, and to my ears that sounds just as 'warm' and 'phat' as plugging any of the originals into my interface and recording it that way, if not better

It certainly doesn't have the FEEL of playing analog gear, but if I get sounds I'm happy with, I don't really care

Rabalder
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Re: Sampled analogue warmth vs the real thing?

Post by Rabalder » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:47 am

This really comes down to personal taste...

Sampled analogue warmth vs the real thing, would to me be like comparing an electronic drumkit to an acoustic drumkit. (in all its purity..)
Or building a ski-facility indoors in dubai..

Its just a sample. The experience can be the same, but only in small proportions.
When you start tweaking.., thats when the power of analog sound shows itself.

In my opinion, the whole point of analog is the pure interaction of the components in its raw form. This is what virtual analog cant touch.

Using a sampled analog bass line just for the fact that it is analog, is meaningless..

But then again, it all comes down to personal taste.

pepezabala
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Re: Sampled analogue warmth vs the real thing?

Post by pepezabala » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:16 am

a real synth looks nicer in the studio/on the stage. and might be more fun to play with. when it comes to sound I believe that you can achieve any sound with a DAW nowadays, warm or cold, light or dark, loud or quiet. the main difference is workflow. some people don't like to stare at a computer screen all the time, so they better go hardware.

taffmonster
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Re: Sampled analogue warmth vs the real thing?

Post by taffmonster » Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:20 am

Don't get me wrong I understand that if comparison was between samples and the real thing, the real thing wins. But when samples can be had at a fraction of the price (admittedly analogue synths are getting cheaper with the mopho and the Minotaur etc) and its not for the touch or feel of it, digital can be just as great sounding as analogue right?

As for staring at the daw. What about analogue modeling synths ? Same hands on control and less money?

I've recently fallen in love with deadmau5 latest album 4x4=12
The production is amazing. Truly a huge sound in my opinion. For a while I was thinking it was all down to his analogue hardware. Pictures of his studio shows a shed load of sweet analogue synths.
Then the other day I was listening to a fellow forum goer called Theo Void on soundcloud. His sound was pretty damn phat too and in a similar style. I know he is using the Roland Gaia which is a digital synth so to me it's seeming that that sound is equally as achievable without all the vco's of an analogue beast under the hood.

Of course people are going to prefer one or the other as its apples and oranges but from an objective standpoint, the digital side can be just as capable can't it? Well actually I would say more so seeing as we are all digitally recording our analogue gear. There are few of us using a 100% analogue recording process.

JAMM
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Re: Sampled analogue warmth vs the real thing?

Post by JAMM » Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:59 am

i,m had analog synths and samplers, mixers in the past so i know how that sounds.

Now with the right plug-ins and producer skills you can emulate that analog warmth.

Rabalder
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Re: Sampled analogue warmth vs the real thing?

Post by Rabalder » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:15 am

taffmonster wrote:digital can be just as great sounding as analogue right?
Short answer, no.
Long answer, yes.

Experience is gold!

If you make music exclusivly from 100% analog gear, its easy to hear.
Listen to one of Aphex Twin's "Analord" releases.. Unmistakable analog sound. To this day its impossible to emulate that kind of analog sound with digital gear.

But like JAMM said, with the right plug-ins and producer skills......

taffmonster
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Re: Sampled analogue warmth vs the real thing?

Post by taffmonster » Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:10 pm

Analord certainly does have its own sound but I think that's as much to do with Richard d James as the gear he uses.

Speaking of nice sounds, and a little bit off topic, but this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w0JSVGh ... ata_player
Is by far the greatest sounding synth in my opinion. The detune is so lush. I've tried everything to recreate it but that detune is difficult to recreate. It doesn't sound right when I use an LFO to modulate pitch. I think it might be something different at work. I know apparat is a big nord user and the modeselektor boys use ni massive but I'm not sure what that sound is. Part of me thinks it sounds like an old Roland sh-01. Has that boards of Canada feel. And when the side compressed baseline cuts in.... Juicy. But again, that sound could be 100% digital.

Unless you have an extreme like the analord example where it's a hundred % analogue, sequencer and all, then the lines seem a bit more blurred.

That said today I bought a blofeld ( doesn't arrive till Thursday ) but I still may fork out for a tetra or slim phatty next month.

glitchrock-buddha
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Re: Sampled analogue warmth vs the real thing?

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Mon Apr 16, 2012 2:04 pm

taffmonster wrote:Analord certainly does have its own sound but I think that's as much to do with Richard d James as the gear he uses.

Speaking of nice sounds, and a little bit off topic, but this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w0JSVGh ... ata_player
Is by far the greatest sounding synth in my opinion. The detune is so lush. I've tried everything to recreate it but that detune is difficult to recreate. It doesn't sound right when I use an LFO to modulate pitch. I think it might be something different at work. I know apparat is a big nord user and the modeselektor boys use ni massive but I'm not sure what that sound is. Part of me thinks it sounds like an old Roland sh-01. Has that boards of Canada feel. And when the side compressed baseline cuts in.... Juicy. But again, that sound could be 100% digital.

Unless you have an extreme like the analord example where it's a hundred % analogue, sequencer and all, then the lines seem a bit more blurred.

That said today I bought a blofeld ( doesn't arrive till Thursday ) but I still may fork out for a tetra or slim phatty next month.
Nice tune!

As for analog sounds, sampled ones can sometimes capture something special, and sometimes they can be totally blah. Take the synth sound in Spectrasonics Trilian. Absolutely incredible. But then the NI Retro synths are pretty boring and they sampled from analog synths.

I definitely feel that with Trilian, Poly-Ana and Diva, I couldn't ask for much more analog authenticity in the box. I also like a few others like oddity and phoscyon and a whole whack of digital synths that can sound pretty analog (Zebra, Massive imposcar etc.)
Professional Shark Jumper.

agent314
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Re: Sampled analogue warmth vs the real thing?

Post by agent314 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 4:54 pm

DIVA is the most amazing analog emulating digital softsynth I've heard. It's sounds great and really has its own character, even though it's all just modeling

philipc
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Re: Sampled analogue warmth vs the real thing?

Post by philipc » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:31 pm

The main thing that can't be done digitally yet is distortion or saturation. Everything else is getting pretty close. I've heard good emulations of clean analog filters but not overdriven filters.

JuanSOLO
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Re: Sampled analogue warmth vs the real thing?

Post by JuanSOLO » Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:55 pm

Rabalder wrote:If you make music exclusivly from 100% analog gear, its easy to hear.
As well as with hybrid set ups, you constantly notice the difference.
I need more analogue gear, I miss it.

agent314
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Re: Sampled analogue warmth vs the real thing?

Post by agent314 » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:06 pm

The main thing that can't be done digitally yet is distortion or saturation
Agreed 100%. Next thing I want Urs Heckmann to work on is a distortion/overdrive plug - I think he could nail it.

starving student
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Re: Sampled analogue warmth vs the real thing?

Post by starving student » Tue Apr 17, 2012 2:01 am

bump

Rabalder
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Re: Sampled analogue warmth vs the real thing?

Post by Rabalder » Tue Apr 17, 2012 12:08 pm

JuanSOLO wrote:
Rabalder wrote:If you make music exclusivly from 100% analog gear, its easy to hear.
As well as with hybrid set ups, you constantly notice the difference.
Most definitely....!!

The more I got aware of the difference, the more it annoyed me, and kept on doing so until the day came when I finally decided to go all analog. Wasnt really a decision though.. More a matter of life and death!

Crazy expenisive!!! But Ive never sounded better!

Currently waiting for a sherman filterbank.. MMMMmmmmmmmmmmmmm.. Crispy!

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