Some computer performance questions: Mac OS versus Windows

[doom_Oo7]

Maybe if you had read my message, you would have seen : "if".

But from experience (I use windows @my home, and Mac OS @best friend's home), latency is generally a tad higher on Mac os than on Windows.

But it's not very relevant, and I must admit I obviously feeded the troll =)

[Piplodocus]

I thought an ASIO/Coreaudio/Whatever call depended on how well the driver's written? Is that the minimum/maximum/guaranteed longest/always value?

Or is the call the thing like the poll time? If so I'd be interested in how long the actual thing the call calls takes, and how big a percentage of that this 1/2ms or bit less is. Any more info on this? I'm an engineer, but not a programmer, so my geeky side takes an interest in these things! Not the quickest after a couple of large bottles of 9% Belgian Trappist beer though!

[just_in]

I also heard there are differences between ASIO and Coreaudio regarding latency. That is, for example, 64 samples with ASIO is not the same as 64 samples with Coreaudio (same audiocard). The latter supposedly has a longer overall latency.
If anyone has both Windows and Mac OS at their disposal, this is very easy to test with Reaper, for example, where you can disable the audio driver reported latency compensation (can't do this in Live, AFAIK). Then you just route a cable from the audio out to audio in, record something from one track out to the next in and measure the distance between waveforms (in samples for maximum accuracy).

[solovox]

I just have to laugh at how strong the Mac Kool-Aid is with it's users. The OP starts his story with "My Mac crapped out," but then proceeds to say maybe he should get another one because it will 'definitely work,' to which someone else agrees with.

It's always been my experiencing with Mac users--they love the club so much they refuse to admit it's many problems (especially shockingly error-prone disc drives).

[rikhyray]

You can get entertained by a troll, or someone who`s friend has a Mac or read what professionals say on the subject
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_fir ... uc_general

[CareyLetendre]

I just have to laugh at how strong the Mac Kool-Aid is with it's users.

Almost as strong as the number of those who love to hate.

[distaudio]

Having used both.

A PC or a Mac is as good as the shit you put on it.

Put shitty freeware and torrent download software.

[solovox]

I just have to laugh at how strong the Mac Kool-Aid is with it's users.

Almost as strong as the number of those who love to hate.

No intention to hate--I'm perfectly fine with folks using Macs. It's the Mac users that can't seem to see a PC and not snicker or judge. As an instructor, I've seen more problems with Macs (and their hard-drives) than with PC systems. Whatever works for you, go for it.

[Khazul]

Maybe if you had read my message, you would have seen : "if".

But from experience (I use windows @my home, and Mac OS @best friend's home), latency is generally a tad higher on Mac os than on Windows.

But it's not very relevant, and I must admit I obviously feeded the troll =)

So you aint using them both on identical hardware then?

[McQ714]

You can get entertained by a troll, or someone who`s friend has a Mac or read what professionals say on the subject
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_fir ... uc_general

or... you can be a total moron and point to tests that were done 3 years ago using old operating systems and hardware making them completely irrelevant now.

and you probably thought you were so clever!

[Machinesworking]

You can get entertained by a troll, or someone who`s friend has a Mac or read what professionals say on the subject
http://www.rme-audio.de/en_products_fir ... uc_general

or... you can be a total moron and point to tests that were done 3 years ago using old operating systems and hardware making them completely irrelevant now.

and you probably thought you were so clever!

Or you can wait three years after being schooled by that same test when you started spouting off about the fiscal and technical superiority of windows to try to make someone else look bad cuz the tests were done "3 years ago".... grudge much?

[McQ714]

yes that's it... a grudge. what exactly am i holding a grudge over? a biased test done 3 years ago on differing setups using an OS that "just works" versus another OS that many people agree was very bloated and should have never existed just before windows 7 was released???

and you don't see anything wrong with using those results and one company's opinion as a reference as to which is currently better especially since those comments and tests were only to show how different computers handle USB audio/drivers? i don't know what kind of computer you use but my windows 7 laptop runs a UFX at 48 samples on a usb connection with no problems. i swear by my RME interfaces but there is no denying they are very pro Macs over there. how about we let the Live performance tests speak for themselves. the first post on page 44 of the performance test results is very interesting, wouldn't you agree?

[distaudio]

There is nothing like a Mac Vs Windows thread for a large amount of sand to cumulate in peoples vaginas.

[rikhyray]

RME "pro Mac", that is such infantile accusation. Companies like RME are only "pro" their own interests, profits nothing else. I posted the link just to point to something from real life, not just some amateurish tests that are hardly representative and/or of any value. Those infected with Mac fan/hater complex wont get cured through internet fights therapies, pity that normal people (for whom computers of whatever brand are just tools) cant avoid getting exposed to those idiocies.

[Khazul]

^ If anything, I allways thought RME were more in the windows camp in terms of their reactions to issues etc and overall support etc.

@McQ714 - can do the same on my MBP - my UFX runs quite happily even at 32 samples on OSX, but I dont know if that counts to OS audio buffer that the user cant control. I cant remember offhand what the lowest Ive had it on bootcamp on the same machine under windows - I would guess its 48.


What I do remember is that when I did a bunch of tests when I first got my MBP (early 2011) there was no significant difference in Live 8 performance between the two OSs over a range of audio interfaces from NI, RME and also with my Virus TI as an audio interface. I didnt try the built in - as thats not something I ever use for production.

For some of those audio interface one OS/interface combination might have marginally lower CPU use than the other and I might see the opposite with a differ audio interface. Likewise I might be push one OS/interface combination a bit harder (higher track counts before audio breakup), but again might see the opposite with a different combination.

Which come back tom this thread - the OP was asking in an ableton live forum about perf difference, so I kind of assume that he is interested in how live runs on either platform, not PT/Cubase etc. In the end, individual companies audio drivers for each OS seem to have a greater impact that the OS does if the hardware is otehrwise identical.

I know this isnt the case for all audio apps and plugins - some run better on OSX, other are better on windows. Some plugins are better as AU, some are better as VST. In the end I get the impression that where aan application or plugins is written with good attension to performance on both platforms, then the results are similar, so an end user's choice really comes down to which platform they prefer and which platform might be better for the software they want to run on it.

For me personally - a mac running lion is the currently the best for many reasons, part of which is the need to be able to run logic but also there are a bunch of useful midi features in the OS that does exist in windows. When I need to run cubase and really get good performance out of it, then I can run it under windows 7/64 bootcamp, but its rare that I need to stretch it that hard to make it worth rebooting, but then I tend to miss alot of general OSX UI features. Likewise when I use OSX, I sometimes miss some windows features.

As I needed a laptop for audio production and performance, then a macbook pro was also a very clear cut obvious choice for me - I didnt want to be at the mercy of the usual PC laptop lottery (at the time) when it comes finding a really relaible fast laptop for audio use.

I find its also true that Lion is not quite as good as snow leopard was performance wise, just as windows 7 still isnt quite as good as XP was, however there is no doubt that both OS offer a bunch of improvements that make them worthwhile for the end user.

These days if you want to best overall for your money and regardless of software license restrictions, then a carefully chosen and well implemented hackintosh desktop/workstation build is the best of all worlds. If you want the best of all worlds on a laptop or a small format computer (mini, imac or PC equivalents of this form factor) then I think a mac is a better machine and certainly a safer buy if your are willing to pay for it.

I can still probably work marginally quicker on a good windows setup - thats really down to availability of better keyboards and better mice for windows - I dont like the apple keyboard and their mice are nowhere near as precise as a good logitech mouse on my PC, but then Ive got used to the apple trackpad which lets me do a some things much quicker on OSX.

OTOH - if I need to run Traktor and Live side by side on the same machine, then OSX suports this really well in several ways, likewise when I want to split a set inot two sets for running one on a differnt laptop - OSX supports the resuting dual/multi-laptop rig nicely due to it included network midi and I havnt mentioned the ease of adding iPad based midi controllers into this yet that use midi over wifi - its stuff like this that make windows hard to go back to.