Whats logic like these days?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
tw1nstates
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Whats logic like these days?

Post by tw1nstates » Tue May 01, 2012 5:13 pm

I have pretty much had it with mixing in ableton.

It's slow, even on a octo core mac.

I can't use much memory.

Keep on getting live sets with automation problems due to going over the 2 gig limit in a session and it cuasing corrupt automation events.

The automation is screwy (but then I hated Logic's Automation on 8 - too easy for it to jump all over the place when editing).

Be interested to know if anyone is still mixing in Logic.
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beatmunga
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Re: Whats logic like these days?

Post by beatmunga » Tue May 01, 2012 5:46 pm

Cheap. A little more in price than buying Analogue alone...

Seems pretty efficient unless you are using Lion which has slowed everything up considerably. Stick to Snow Leopard if you can.
mendeldrive wrote:NOBODY designs their own sounds... There is ZERO point in reinventing the wheel.

ttilberg
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Re: Whats logic like these days?

Post by ttilberg » Tue May 01, 2012 7:35 pm

Seems pretty efficient unless you are using Lion which has slowed everything up considerably. Stick to Snow Leopard if you can
I hate the direction OSX is heading :(


Now that Logic is only $200, it almost feels silly not buying it and having it available. I'm only starting to get into the nitty gritty of proper mixing and mastering tracks, but from what I've learned so far, having another tool for that side of things might be a good idea. That said, I've never used Logic, and will perhaps hate it. The fact that there is no demo is very off putting.
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Saxer
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Re: Whats logic like these days?

Post by Saxer » Tue May 01, 2012 7:53 pm

using logic since ever. works great for me in 64bit.

kev herb
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Re: Whats logic like these days?

Post by kev herb » Tue May 01, 2012 8:15 pm

all good for me on snow leopard duo core 32 bit. feel like i can run it harder than i can in live without it choking and of course there is space designer :)
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mholloway
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Re: Whats logic like these days?

Post by mholloway » Tue May 01, 2012 8:33 pm

People always act like it's no big deal to change your workflow from using one DAW to suddenly using two, splitting between sequencing and mixing. I know some people do this and love it. But for me, the act of mixing down and exporting every stem, then importing every stem into a totally different environment, then re-building every channel strip for every channel of every stem, is such a time-intensive, obnoxious, laborious process...and all just so I can do what, exactly? Use faders that looks different? Have access to some native plugs that are mostly just like those in the first DAW? Seriously, what does "mixing" in Logic possibly provide that "mixing" in ableton does not? I'm not insulting, I'm genuinely asking, because for all the hellish workflow-killing time waste of exporting and importing stems, I just can't figure out what the hell happens *then* in the 2nd DAW that couldn't have just as easily been done in the first....


oh, and per OP question, I have Logic 9 running on my imac, it seems stable / cool....I just don't have any use for it, see above 8O
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beatmunga
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Re: Whats logic like these days?

Post by beatmunga » Tue May 01, 2012 8:43 pm

ttilberg wrote:having another tool for that side of things might be a good idea. That said, I've never used Logic, and will perhaps hate it. The fact that there is no demo is very off putting.
I hated it for the first couple of weeks after I switched from Cubase about 8 years ago. Nearly threw my computer out the window on a few occasions. Stuck with it though and now it's my 'get a job done' DAW. I'm actually a very late recruit to Ableton and the attraction of Live for me is mainly the session view, which is a breath of fresh air after years of timelines. I may get some really inspirational ideas from Live, but I can still see myself finishing stuff off in Logic. Then, ironically, putting the parts back into Ableton if I ever play live, mainly as the APC40 is such a performance gem. I'm guessing there are quite a few out there doing something similar, perhaps substituting Pro Tools for Logic.

And you're right Kev Herb - once you get used to a top convolution reverb, its absence on a DAW seems like a major step back. It really is a deal breaker for some people!

PS Pro Tools is rubbish...
Last edited by beatmunga on Tue May 01, 2012 8:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mendeldrive wrote:NOBODY designs their own sounds... There is ZERO point in reinventing the wheel.

beatmunga
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Re: Whats logic like these days?

Post by beatmunga » Tue May 01, 2012 8:57 pm

mholloway wrote:People always act like it's no big deal to change your workflow from using one DAW to suddenly using two, splitting between sequencing and mixing. I know some people do this and love it. But for me, the act of mixing down and exporting every stem, then importing every stem into a totally different environment, then re-building every channel strip for every channel of every stem, is such a time-intensive, obnoxious, laborious process...and all just so I can do what, exactly? Use faders that looks different? Have access to some native plugs that are mostly just like those in the first DAW? Seriously, what does "mixing" in Logic possibly provide that "mixing" in ableton does not? I'm not insulting, I'm genuinely asking, because for all the hellish workflow-killing time waste of exporting and importing stems, I just can't figure out what the hell happens *then* in the 2nd DAW that couldn't have just as easily been done in the first....


oh, and per OP question, I have Logic 9 running on my imac, it seems stable / cool....I just don't have any use for it, see above 8O
You're right, there's a lot of the Emporer's New Clothes mentality around. It comes down to individual plug ins (eg Space Designer as mentioned above) or workflow (Ableton's arrange view seems fiddly compared to Logic - personal view from a Live newbie!).

If you want your cake and eat it like me ie:

session view, great timestretching, APC functionaity (Live);

more audibly sophisticated plug ins (Space Designer, Multipressor, Linear Phase EQ), less fiddly, multiple window arrange and mixdown (Logic)

..then getting the stems out is small potatoes out of the time spent on the average project. I probably spend longer layering kicks. Which I ironically do in Logic (better audio editing!) first before exporting to Ableton...
mendeldrive wrote:NOBODY designs their own sounds... There is ZERO point in reinventing the wheel.

ttilberg
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Re: Whats logic like these days?

Post by ttilberg » Tue May 01, 2012 9:00 pm

But for me, the act of mixing down and exporting every stem, then importing every stem into a totally different environment, then re-building every channel strip for every channel of every stem, is such a time-intensive, obnoxious, laborious process...
My thought would have been to do your composition in Live, and maybe do basic EQ things like HPF <30 hz or wherever at the end of your channels, and export those stems... Then all you would need to do is import the .wavs for each channel as channels into Logic -- surely that can't be too difficult (again, never used it) and do all of your mixing and whatnot in Logic. I don't see that you would need to rebuild every channel strip, the audio is already there. The mixing process focuses on placing and balancing your sounds. From what I have heard, Live's plugins (like EQ) are optimized for Live Performance, and many folks swear by a big difference in the quality of plugins (even when they are put into HQ Mode). Personally, I don't feel like I have the ears and mixing environment to catch such subtle differences, but people who do swear up and down by it.
If you are using external plugins for EQ and compression, than perhaps it is moot. I don't really know.

I do know that I wouldn't mind having access to alternative tools, such as the mentioned space designer, and whatever else Logic has to offer. I might not use it all the time, but it's nice to know it's available.

Can anyone else offer input onto this method? Composing in Live, mixing and mastering in Logic? Do you like it? Is it time consuming? I think it's a great question actually, because I see myself exploring that route in the next few months.
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swishniak
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Re: Whats logic like these days?

Post by swishniak » Tue May 01, 2012 9:03 pm

logic is, for me, still the best program for recording and mixing (not producing).

key commands / automation / handling of presets / etc .. i still do the stem thing when mixing down bigger projects, but not always - just as often im taking logic sessions from studio recordings / vocals / sound design editing and putting them back in live (for all the good things live can do).

they are both awesome for their own reasons.. i dont think i could do what i do without both.

dna598
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Re: Whats logic like these days?

Post by dna598 » Tue May 01, 2012 9:22 pm

beatmunga wrote:Ableton's arrange view seems fiddly compared to Logic - personal view from a Live newbie!
give it time mate, you ll soon be saying the opposite
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kev herb
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Re: Whats logic like these days?

Post by kev herb » Tue May 01, 2012 9:25 pm

i am (after a leaning curve and a mac pro vid subscription :) ) loving logic now with its deepness and space designer has changed my life :mrgreen: but ableton is an idea machine and blows the others away every time for getting a drum kit together and auditioning sounds all in time with the music. quick as fuck to get the bare bones down. then into logic for arrangement, mixing and all the serious stuff.
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barryalva
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Re: Whats logic like these days?

Post by barryalva » Tue May 01, 2012 10:18 pm

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Last edited by barryalva on Thu May 24, 2012 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mholloway
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Re: Whats logic like these days?

Post by mholloway » Wed May 02, 2012 12:51 am

I think I've figured out why this doesn't work for me, compared to those above posting a 2 DAW sequencing / Mixing workflow: the things people call "mixing" are things I do throughout the entire song composition process. Figuring out all the specific FX on each channel, its EQ settings, and its relative volume in the mix is, for me, part of writing the song in the first place. The sounds I'm using wouldn't be what they are if not for the EQ I'm doing to them, the delays I have inserted, the Reverb sends I'm using, the compression in some cases, etc etc. There's no way I could "write" the song and then apply these later to a mixdown'd stem: hearing them fully sculpted, effected & "fit" into the mix is part of putting the song together in the first place. Which explains why it'd be so incredibly redundant for me to "mix" in a 2nd DAW: I've basically already mixed it. I'd import the stems into audio channels in Logic and then....having nothing to do but mix it down.

Space Designer is nice, yes, but not worth using an entire 2nd DAW for. I use ArtsAcoustic reverb in Live and have never felt like I needed anything else; it's effin' beautiful.

I also think you guys are over-selling logic's plug-ins in general. Some of you state "generally considered more pro than ableton's" but that's just a bunch of forum / old-schooler bullshit. LIve has many great native FX, the EQ8 and Compressor among them. If you think using Logic's EQ, etc, is making your mixes better, I'd say your suffering some serious phantom bias. But <shrug>. Just my thoughts on the matter!

-M
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

pencilrocket
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Re: Whats logic like these days?

Post by pencilrocket » Wed May 02, 2012 2:16 am

mholloway wrote: If you think using Logic's EQ, etc, is making your mixes better, I'd say your suffering some serious phantom bias. But <shrug>. Just my thoughts on the matter!

-M
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