Ableton Live - Recording a full band?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Tone Deft
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Re: Ableton Live - Recording a full band?

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:08 am

regarding warping the band, there's a section in the manual that talks about being able to select all the tracks in Arrange view then as you warp the top track the rest will follow. something like that, it's been a while since I've read up on it.
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hacktheplanet
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Re: Ableton Live - Recording a full band?

Post by hacktheplanet » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:31 pm

ShredGnar wrote:
Punky921 wrote:I'm about to do this too, so I'm curious what you all think. I'm kind of worried that Ableton's insistence on sticking to its beat grid will make assembling the bits and pieces later a huge fucking bitch.
dancing Ray wrote:No problems recording full bands here.
Live is perfectly capable of banning audio to hd.
I prefer to turn the grid off when editing.
I do not own a single Ableton product at this moment and am still in the researching stage. I used to use an old version of Cubase, but after trying out the new Cubase, it is the absolute furthest thing from an intuitive D.A.W. that I have ever dealt with. After trying out other DAWs I have come to the conclusion that they all pretty much suck for a lot of reasons. It's really hard to beat a mixing console and real gear. However, my hopes are currently on Live 9.

With that out of the way, I am concerned that, if using Live to record full rock projects, I will get roped into the current beat making paradigm and have to deal with stuff like Punky921 mentioned.

Do I really have to deal with forced clicks and a bunch of other shit? Doesn't Ableton just read in a .wav recording of your input signal like every other DAW on the planet? If not, why on earth wouldn't it be up to the musician to create their own time signatures or use freetime recordings, even in a triggered sample environment. Who makes the rules for what is usable and what isn't? Those decisions should be in the hands of musicians, not the software!

Maybe I'm misunderstanding how this all works. Someone who's done some rock projects should enlighten me if they have a moment.

Thanks.
My band recorded our last album using Live 7 (It was mixed/mastered in PT though): http://samantha.bandcamp.com/
We are about to release 2 tracks for a digital split ep that will be tracked/mixed/mastered in Live 8 using all native plugs except for Nomad Factory Magnetic.

Regarding Live's metronome, if your song allows for it, use it. It makes everything WAY easier to deal with if you have to adjust the scootch the errant drum hit here and there. If you need to, you can always sequence your own metronome with a hihat click and use it as a backing track as you record.

Also, we double our vocals on everything, and warping is awesome for that. If you hang on a syllable too long, you can just warp the end a little shorter and match it more closely.

If I can remember, I'll post the new one when it's finished. :D
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ray619
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Re: Ableton Live - Recording a full band?

Post by ray619 » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:49 am

I finally recorded my first band with Ableton recently and have to say it went pretty well! I'm convinced now that Ableton Live works just fine recording a full band.

Some of the things I really wish it had though is a way to just turn off Warp! Right now I everytime I record any track, I have to go back and turn it off manually. And another couple of things regards mixing.

Anyone know when Ableton Live will release an update where you can seperate the arrangement window and the mixing window?? I have dual monitors setup and with Live it's pretty a useless thing to have. Also, it would be nice to be able to see more than just one plugin window at a time. Right now anytime I bring up a plugin and switch tracks the plugin window disappears. I guess I could just say anyone know when Ableton will support dual monitors?

Other than turning off warp mode and dual monitor support, Live works great for recording a band!

I went to my local guitar center this saturday cause they had a little training on Pro Tools 10 and the only thing that I can see, which makes Pro Tools superior, is the way it's designed for recording bands, like just some of the things I mentioned above. Other than that, I'd still much rather use Ableton than Pro Tools still even though now you can get third party audio interface support with PT.

Sepp Ultura
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Re: Ableton Live - Recording a full band?

Post by Sepp Ultura » Tue Jul 03, 2012 3:54 am

About a year ago, I recorded and mixed an entire band in Live. I wrote down my experiences and thoughts about the project in this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=162766

Maybe this contributes to the thoughts heard so far in this thread.
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bosonHavoc
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Re: Ableton Live - Recording a full band?

Post by bosonHavoc » Tue Jul 03, 2012 4:10 am

ray you can turn auto warp long samples off in preferences.

defiantly look into warping multiple tracks at the same time as tone deft mentioned.
it is pretty simple, all the clips need to be the same length, and then make sure
the last clip you select has the primary rhythmic content so it is easier to warp.

RemiLoco
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Re: Ableton Live - Recording a full band?

Post by RemiLoco » Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:43 am

I am in a band and have been using Live to record. If you are single tracking this works well. Here are the tricks you will need to know.
1. Figure out the BPM and set the tempo for that BPM.
2. If your Drummer is good enough to work with a click track make him/her. If not use either a midi drum loop you create/a drum clip to help him/her along or start with either the bass or guitar and the drummer can follow when you get to the time to record them.
3. Capture a one good solid in time measure for each part of the song. Meaning capture a perfect measure of the verse then capture a perfect measure of the chorus and then capture a perfect measure of whatever else they have in the arrangement.
4. Copy and paste the "perfect" measures to the appropriate lengths of each verse, chorus and so on.
5. When you get done with that you will have a perfect in time arrangement of a song. you can then start mixing and working levels.

Yes it is kind of cheating but it gets the "professional" sound you and the band wants and it also keeps everything in time so you can work whatever hiccups the band did during recording. Oh and for basses and guitars always capture a bleed note off of every segment of recording so you have sustains that sound natural when transitions happen in the song.

As far as single taking the entire band. If it is live and they are doing a performance kill the tempo and rock on with recording. If you are capturing in a building and are trying for a solid "album" level or demo you are going to beat your head against the wall trying to get that perfect take.

Bands often like this way of recording because they are able to capture the ambiance and energy of the whole but most times than not they struggle to stay In time. Beyond that they usually spend an entire day just trying to get that one take which even with seasoned musicians doesn't happen.

I've recorded 6 bands with the different methods I am speaking of and now I am recording my own band which has been together for three years. Trust me the copy and paste method gets the best quality and quickest results which means as a band we can get back out on stage doing what we do best. Rocking out and falling in and out of time without anyone the wiser. Hope this helped.

THe only issues I have found is good Ableton effects for bands. But VST's are there for a reason right?

Angstrom
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Re: Ableton Live - Recording a full band?

Post by Angstrom » Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:13 pm

ray619 wrote: btw.. about recording with a click.. not sure how many drummers would be comfortable with that but I've thought it would real nice too if they would be able to do that.
My advice is don't use a click, and certainly don't use the standard factory "BIP BOOP BOOP" noise. It kills the drummer's soul. A simple beat through their phones is better. In fact I wonder if you could get the drummer to play 4 bars of the track's basic beat and play that back to him through the headphones.

The BIG downside of any sync track is: the steady state BPM isn't actually beneficial to musicality. Sure it helps DJs mix records, but a good song might well speed up a bit in the chorus to make it more exciting, or slowly ramp up in tempo over the duration of the song. Modern DAWS and home producers rarely consider this ancient facet of music, because the culture of the DJ wanting to "beatmatch" has completely taken over.

Emanresu0891
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Re: Ableton Live - Recording a full band?

Post by Emanresu0891 » Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:09 pm

Angstrom wrote:
ray619 wrote: btw.. about recording with a click.. not sure how many drummers would be comfortable with that but I've thought it would real nice too if they would be able to do that.
My advice is don't use a click, and certainly don't use the standard factory "BIP BOOP BOOP" noise. It kills the drummer's soul. A simple beat through their phones is better. In fact I wonder if you could get the drummer to play 4 bars of the track's basic beat and play that back to him through the headphones.

The BIG downside of any sync track is: the steady state BPM isn't actually beneficial to musicality. Sure it helps DJs mix records, but a good song might well speed up a bit in the chorus to make it more exciting, or slowly ramp up in tempo over the duration of the song. Modern DAWS and home producers rarely consider this ancient facet of music, because the culture of the DJ wanting to "beatmatch" has completely taken over.
What if you are the only one making all the music? Do you have any suggestions on how to make it sound like a band playing together in a room without using a metronome in Live? I know Cubase advertises some interesting features to do this but there really is nothing in Live

Stromkraft
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Re: Ableton Live - Recording a full band?

Post by Stromkraft » Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:55 pm

Emanresu0891 wrote: What if you are the only one making all the music? Do you have any suggestions on how to make it sound like a band playing together in a room without using a metronome in Live? I know Cubase advertises some interesting features to do this but there really is nothing in Live
Something to investigate: Record an important rhythmic track supposed to dictate the tempo freely allowing for natural played tempo adjustments. Then use that track as a tempo master (Manual and search the forums) and make the other recordings with this as the tempo reference.

I suppose that simulating channel leakage and stuff would also be nice, but the above might be a good starting point.
Make some music!

Angstrom
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Re: Ableton Live - Recording a full band?

Post by Angstrom » Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:55 pm

Stromkraft wrote:
Emanresu0891 wrote: What if you are the only one making all the music? Do you have any suggestions on how to make it sound like a band playing together in a room without using a metronome in Live? I know Cubase advertises some interesting features to do this but there really is nothing in Live
Something to investigate: Record an important rhythmic track supposed to dictate the tempo freely allowing for natural played tempo adjustments. Then use that track as a tempo master (Manual and search the forums) and make the other recordings with this as the tempo reference.

I suppose that simulating channel leakage and stuff would also be nice, but the above might be a good starting point.
The master-slave tempo track is an idea, but I just play everything to the grid and draw in a master tempo afterwards. I know you say "but what about warping artifacts on guitars and shit!", I confess, I speed up guitar using complex pro, and when its run through guitar rig it sounds fine( To me). The drums are all midi so that's no problem.
I do think a LOT about doing tricks like channel leakage, and also simulating spaces. That's a big subject though. Too big for this particular thread.

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