Hi everyone,
Thought you might appreciate this - a little article on what makes a great producer (it clearly isn't dress sense in most cases!). With a bit of chat from Max Cooper, Paul Woolford and Above & Beyond's Jono...
Over at Lost In Musik...
http://www.lostinmusik.net/?p=2531
Hope you like it.
Cheers,
D
What's the difference between a good and a great producer?
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darzhliebek
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Re: What's the difference between a good and a great producer?
In a Brian Eno interview I saw somewhere his answer to a similar question was that his job was to make the music sound as good as it possibly can - to reach and even exceed its potential.
Obviously consistency and bankability are a given from an industry standpoint but beyond that, artisically, I think Eno is right on the mark (as he so often is).
Some of my favourite albums, from a producer-centered perspective (aside from several of Eno's) are the Rick Ruben / Johnny Cash recordings (the whole "American" series really) and the Lanois produced Willie Nelson Album "Teatro". While the music is just really good, what these producers did was reveal the depth of the artists as people, as human and spiritual beings. In both cases, the artists became more relevant, deeper, multidimensional. With Unforgettable Fire Eno & Lanois single-handedly lifted U2 out of a youth music category and again, brought out their spiritual longings and sensibilities front and center. Im convinced they are who they are today because of Eno.
Also, Adrian Sherwood's work with the Jamaican artists he worked with in the early to mid 80's falls into this category. He took the music out of Jamaica, while retaining its essential or integral aspects and put it in a new context making rastas seem cutting edge in a scene dominated by punk, new wave and proto-Industrial.
In recent times, i think the Diplo/Major Lazer guy (while not needing a boost to his ego) really steps forward. What he did with Dancehall is on the callibre of what Sherwood did with Roots and Dub.
So like a good film director, beyond making an appealing, commercially viable product, a great producer knows how to bring out the best performance and create a vivid, engaging context or space for seeing or hearing things in a fresh way.
Imo anyway.
Obviously consistency and bankability are a given from an industry standpoint but beyond that, artisically, I think Eno is right on the mark (as he so often is).
Some of my favourite albums, from a producer-centered perspective (aside from several of Eno's) are the Rick Ruben / Johnny Cash recordings (the whole "American" series really) and the Lanois produced Willie Nelson Album "Teatro". While the music is just really good, what these producers did was reveal the depth of the artists as people, as human and spiritual beings. In both cases, the artists became more relevant, deeper, multidimensional. With Unforgettable Fire Eno & Lanois single-handedly lifted U2 out of a youth music category and again, brought out their spiritual longings and sensibilities front and center. Im convinced they are who they are today because of Eno.
Also, Adrian Sherwood's work with the Jamaican artists he worked with in the early to mid 80's falls into this category. He took the music out of Jamaica, while retaining its essential or integral aspects and put it in a new context making rastas seem cutting edge in a scene dominated by punk, new wave and proto-Industrial.
In recent times, i think the Diplo/Major Lazer guy (while not needing a boost to his ego) really steps forward. What he did with Dancehall is on the callibre of what Sherwood did with Roots and Dub.
So like a good film director, beyond making an appealing, commercially viable product, a great producer knows how to bring out the best performance and create a vivid, engaging context or space for seeing or hearing things in a fresh way.
Imo anyway.
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darzhliebek
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:01 am
- Location: UK
Re: What's the difference between a good and a great producer?
We have a lot to thank Eno for over the years. I love watching interviews with him.
I think it does run deeper than the article suggests, especially if you move out of EDM. We often consider greatness purely in terms of how to appeal and provide something of value to others. But some producers really do change the game entirely.
I like the film director analogy.
I think it does run deeper than the article suggests, especially if you move out of EDM. We often consider greatness purely in terms of how to appeal and provide something of value to others. But some producers really do change the game entirely.
I like the film director analogy.
Re: What's the difference between a good and a great producer?
Well, I didnt really get into EDM, maybe because I have Eno on the brain recently. But Diplo/Major Lazer counts towards this. He could be working with MIA or Sean Kingston or a bounty Killer copy-cat and the sort of Major Lazer imaginary dancehall thing elevates their performance, or at least makes them seem different or new, and in turn makes his range of references seem to expand as well.
Not that I disagree with the points in the article (even the one about "presenting" yourself). Within a genre like Trance or house for example, what makes a great producer is kind of difficult to point out. Partly because there is this balance between sounding consistent with the genre itself so DJ's will play it but distinctive enough so that there is a signature as well. Personally I think the sonic signature is that thing that the artist/producer just always does or gravitates towards - like a quirk. They almost cant help it. I dont think they necessarily 'choose' their sound so much as they cant get rid of it. This same thing can make a persns tracks annoying if they dont have good hook and arrangement skills.
But put through the same criteria that I was thinking about above, in EDM its often the same. Theivery Corp is a good example. They could be working with a reggae singer or a quirky-girl or Perry Farrel or the singer from Flaming Lips. And in each case you are still in TC's sonic landscape but get to hear even rock singers in a new way that shows off new things about them. The article mentioned Chemical Bros and genre bending. Personally, I think the ability to genre bend effectively is a sign of a potentially great producer.
Imo anyway.
Not that I disagree with the points in the article (even the one about "presenting" yourself). Within a genre like Trance or house for example, what makes a great producer is kind of difficult to point out. Partly because there is this balance between sounding consistent with the genre itself so DJ's will play it but distinctive enough so that there is a signature as well. Personally I think the sonic signature is that thing that the artist/producer just always does or gravitates towards - like a quirk. They almost cant help it. I dont think they necessarily 'choose' their sound so much as they cant get rid of it. This same thing can make a persns tracks annoying if they dont have good hook and arrangement skills.
But put through the same criteria that I was thinking about above, in EDM its often the same. Theivery Corp is a good example. They could be working with a reggae singer or a quirky-girl or Perry Farrel or the singer from Flaming Lips. And in each case you are still in TC's sonic landscape but get to hear even rock singers in a new way that shows off new things about them. The article mentioned Chemical Bros and genre bending. Personally, I think the ability to genre bend effectively is a sign of a potentially great producer.
Imo anyway.
Re: What's the difference between a good and a great producer?
a commercial producer is judged by the billboard.afaik..
as far as "artistry" ..that's a whole other can of worms
I guess it's a vision... and execution of the vision.. and sympathy to the vision by the crowd
there's also a lot of luck.. and a high probability of talent in there
as far as "artistry" ..that's a whole other can of worms
I guess it's a vision... and execution of the vision.. and sympathy to the vision by the crowd
there's also a lot of luck.. and a high probability of talent in there
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oblique strategies
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Re: What's the difference between a good and a great producer?
Interesting topic.
I tend to favor creativity above many other factors. Not surprisingly, Brian Eno & Lee 'Scratch' Perry are my two favorite producers.
Eno has maintained his integrity throughout these many years. In fact his 'Another Day On Earth' (2005) can take its place alongside such works as 'Another Green World' (1975). High praise indeed.
With Lee Perry it's best to focus on his work from the late 60's to the late 70's Black Ark productions. What an astonishing body of work!
One thing that both of these producers share is what I can only term "musicality". Not only are they rightly considered to be possessed of true genius & eccentricity, the majority of their work is highly melodic, being very well composed & arranged. One can easily sing most of their works. I really enjoy this juxtaposition of the tuneful with the bizarre & sonically adventurous.
I tend to favor creativity above many other factors. Not surprisingly, Brian Eno & Lee 'Scratch' Perry are my two favorite producers.
Eno has maintained his integrity throughout these many years. In fact his 'Another Day On Earth' (2005) can take its place alongside such works as 'Another Green World' (1975). High praise indeed.
With Lee Perry it's best to focus on his work from the late 60's to the late 70's Black Ark productions. What an astonishing body of work!
One thing that both of these producers share is what I can only term "musicality". Not only are they rightly considered to be possessed of true genius & eccentricity, the majority of their work is highly melodic, being very well composed & arranged. One can easily sing most of their works. I really enjoy this juxtaposition of the tuneful with the bizarre & sonically adventurous.
Last edited by oblique strategies on Tue May 22, 2012 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: What's the difference between a good and a great producer?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbb192bV ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br64hUil ... re=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69eNXrQk ... re=related
a must watch for a perry fan :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9F_aqlpX ... ure=relmfu
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oblique strategies
- Posts: 3595
- Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 9:57 pm
- Location: Another Green World
Re: What's the difference between a good and a great producer?
the type of 'producer' in the article seems to be the over-inflated modern kind of self promoting electronic musician, which is really just a very specialised kind of mix engineer rather than a producer. It uses the modernised terminology which seems to me a bastardisation.
Sure - you can use the new meaning, but is that really all there is?
This line sums it up
A great producer can take a band who hate each other and are on their 4th album, just back from a 12 month world tour, and he can bully, cajole and trick them into ignoring the trite and obvious things they rely on and no matter what it takes will have them producing unexpected gold. He will do this despite everything.
A producer is like the director of a movie, he uses actors, lighting directors, script writers, and steers the whole bickering lot of them toward some kind of eventual goal. And if he is a good producer the place they land will be not a rocky shore but an unexplored island.
To narrow the definition of producer down to one small subset of people making electronic dance music, especially their own electronic dance music, is extremely short sighted. The book that the article is attempting to sell, well I guess there's a big market for that sort of thing. That's the best I can say about it.
Sure - you can use the new meaning, but is that really all there is?
This line sums it up
Really. I felt ill reading that.How do great producers decide what music to make?
A great producer can take a band who hate each other and are on their 4th album, just back from a 12 month world tour, and he can bully, cajole and trick them into ignoring the trite and obvious things they rely on and no matter what it takes will have them producing unexpected gold. He will do this despite everything.
A producer is like the director of a movie, he uses actors, lighting directors, script writers, and steers the whole bickering lot of them toward some kind of eventual goal. And if he is a good producer the place they land will be not a rocky shore but an unexplored island.
To narrow the definition of producer down to one small subset of people making electronic dance music, especially their own electronic dance music, is extremely short sighted. The book that the article is attempting to sell, well I guess there's a big market for that sort of thing. That's the best I can say about it.
Re: What's the difference between a good and a great producer?
Its funny how lucid he is with a pretty girl. 
Dudes cant get interviews like that with him. Took Katz years to get enough coherent material to put his book People Funny Boy together.
Dudes cant get interviews like that with him. Took Katz years to get enough coherent material to put his book People Funny Boy together.Re: What's the difference between a good and a great producer?
... the man is 100% lucid at all times..donmich wrote:Its funny how lucid he is with a pretty girl.
he's just making fun of it all ! he invented his own abstract world from pieces..
a smart man.. very much into symbolism
Re: What's the difference between a good and a great producer?
I dont know about 100%3dot... wrote:... the man is 100% lucid at all times..donmich wrote:Its funny how lucid he is with a pretty girl.
he's just making fun of it all ! he invented his own abstract world from pieces..
a smart man.. very much into symbolism
Geniuses are human too and are quite often partially nuts or bipolar or whatever. Especially if they smoke a pound or so of weed a day like he used to.
His scatalogical obsessions for example are not necessary to read brilliance into. Or like, sticking tinfoil in the electrical outlets of Adrian Sherwoods studio when they were all out for a pint. Its not like he turned it off when the crowds and cemeras were gone. Certainly he plays it up, especially these days, as I think he is psychologically stronger now and has a good support system in his wife and kids, but even he got worried enough to give up weed to figure out what was coming from his own brain and what wasnt.
When people worship you for things you did in the past to the point of thinking your breakdown is cool or your psychotic episodes are mystical its frustrating. (there is this photo of him sitting amidst the rubble of the ark where he looks exhausted, bewildered and even frightened - i felt pain when I saw it). People mythologized him to the point where they couldnt tell the difference between his bowel movements and his masterpieces. I personally think his antics were partially a lashing out at this kind of thing. But I think he has made peace with it now and values his role as grandfather and teacher.
But back to his brilliance and and a comment made earlier about how great producers can manage the total chaos of a dysfunctional band and all the parasite hangers-on and so on and still deliver a magnificent product, i think a case in point was the Congos project with Perry. When that got made, the studio was filled with leeches and egos and thieves all taking a piece of him. Throughout he managed to put together possibly the deepest most beautiful album ever produced in Jamaica or anywhere. He held on till it was finished but it nearly killed him and did in fact lead to his breakdown. That is dedication and greatness.
Last edited by donmich on Tue May 22, 2012 4:20 pm, edited 2 times in total.