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Right and left channels bleeding into each other... HELP!!

Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 9:20 pm
by DSPI
I'm using Live to play samples and synths with my band with the drummer listening to a click.
In theory this is great but as an interface I've only got a Lexicon Alpha with 2 outputs.
I've tried a couple of different set-ups: hard panning left and right to separate click and synths through a stereo output; using channels 1 & 2 as 2 separate mono outputs with cue out on one channel with the click, and main out on the other channel....

BUT no matter what I do the click bleeds through to the other channel (which doesn't bother me in rehearsals but is useless for a gig 'cos the click would be heard FOH).
:(
Anyone got any ideas? Am I missing something or is the Alpha just crap for this?

Thanks for any suggestions
:)

Re: Right and left channels bleeding into each other... HELP!!

Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:44 pm
by H20nly
:? weird.

not sure i completely understand how that would even be recorded (unless you're using a mic)... regardless, what about making your own click by setting up a dummy MIDI track that has a "click" sample of some sort on it to keep time with?


edit: i'm leaving my previous post... BUT i think i get it. you are trying to have a click that only the drummer hears while both of you play... but your lexicon's routing options are limited. is that right?

Re: Right and left channels bleeding into each other... HELP!!

Posted: Wed May 23, 2012 10:48 pm
by noisetonepause
Not much you can do if there's cross talk between the outputs... Does the Lexicon have a digital output? Could use that if you can find something to use as a DAC, maybe an old minidisc recorder, or a hardware reverb or something.

Re: Right and left channels bleeding into each other... HELP!!

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 6:33 am
by DSPI
H20nly wrote::? weird.

not sure i completely understand how that would even be recorded (unless you're using a mic)... regardless, what about making your own click by setting up a dummy MIDI track that has a "click" sample of some sort on it to keep time with?


edit: i'm leaving my previous post... BUT i think i get it. you are trying to have a click that only the drummer hears while both of you play... but your lexicon's routing options are limited. is that right?

Yes, routing is the main problem - the Alpha has only 2 audio outputs - my plan is to use left for audio to FOH (samples are mono anyway) and right for click to the drummer's headphones (or vice versa - it doesn't matter). The click IS a MIDI track (gives me more control), and the audio to FOH out is a combination of audio and MIDI. Therefore I can't see why the click is (faintly) audible on the other output. I haven't found any evidence of anyone else experiencing this problem with this particular hardware yet either.

I am truly at a loss as to what's going on!

Re: Right and left channels bleeding into each other... HELP!!

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 6:49 am
by H20nly
have you tried Utility? it's in the audio effects racks.

since you're flexible (one person left, one right) it should do the trick.

Re: Right and left channels bleeding into each other... HELP!!

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 10:31 am
by noisetonepause
DSPI wrote:Therefore I can't see why the click is (faintly) audible on the other output. I haven't found any evidence of anyone else experiencing this problem with this particular hardware yet either.
My guess is it's just crosstalk - it's basically because the left and right outputs aren't properly insulated from one another, so a bit of the current supposed to go from one bleeds into the other. This happens on analogue mixers too, especially cheap ones, where a bit of channel 1 will also be on audible on channel 2... sometimes enough that if you've got your kick on one and your snare on the other and send some of the snare to a reverb, you'll hear reverb on the kick as well.

It might be your unit that's a bit faulty, it might be that this is common but nobody notices because everybody else just uses the outputs as stereo. All you will notice in that case, if you notice it at all, is a slightly narrower stereo image.

Re: Right and left channels bleeding into each other... HELP!!

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 11:12 am
by garyboozy
yup, crosstalk. we had the same issue: a midi pattern click going to the drummer was bleeding over to the main outs. but that was with a focusrite saffire le - 6 outputs - so we were able to use another out that didnt have the bleed.
you could get another card and hope it doesnt have the same issue (lot of cheaper ones do, apparently)

OR you can use a hardware gate between the soundcard out and the DI to squash the click.
but that depends on how quiet the click is, and whether your songs have long attack times/drift-ins etc... could sound shitty

Re: Right and left channels bleeding into each other... HELP!!

Posted: Thu May 24, 2012 5:51 pm
by DSPI
Thanks to all of you for your help and advice.

Looks to me like you've hit the nail on the head with crosstalk. I've been going through different scenarios, different sets, different routing, various EQ and utility set-ups (thanks H2Only for the idea) - everything I can think of - and it only seems to happen on this one set with the click track.

The problem seems to be that the click track is stupidly loud compared to the rest of the tracks. Samples and loops to FOH are down between about -25 and -30, whereas the click needs to be up at zero and just short of clipping horribly and distorting. This is just so that the drummer can actually hear the click in his headphones above the rest of the band and his own kit.

I'm thinking (after reading garyboozy's post) that a solution could be some kind of amplification between the interface and the headphones. That way I could keep the original click signal at a reasonable level and the bleed might not be audible.

And the drummer probably needs better headphones... drummers, eh! :roll: :D