Missing Element in 808 Kick Drum

[papamoll]

Hi there,
I am looking for a very specific kick drum sound but there seems to be a missing piece to the puzzle when I try to create that sound. I am pretty sure it's based on 808 kick drum samples. What I am missing is a higher, slightly hissing sound that the kick drums have I am looking for. Here is an example:

http://cdn04.cdn.gorillavsbear.net/wp-c ... p-Hurt.mp3

I also hear the exact sound I want in this video at the 1:29 mark:

http://www.pointblankonline.net/blog/cr ... ple-packs/

He is obviously using the Kick 808 preset in Ableton but when I load it in Ableton I am missing that specific sound.

It's kind of hard to describe but I hope you guys know what I am looking for.

Thanks so much in advance for any help. It's driving me crazy haha

[papamoll]

please let me know if you need me to describe my problem better. I hear the specific sound I am looking for in this song as well:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQ1xVzHaML0

or in this video of an original TR 808:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_coVK7QgjE


Thanks

[beatmunga]

You'll need to describe the problem better. The 4 examples you give have wildly different kicks.

• 1st clip is a noisy 808 sample. Noise could be from vinyl or a noisy desk, hard to tell.
  
  2nd clip is a typical 808 recreation (nearly there but not quite) crusted up with YouTube compression.
  
  3rd clip has an unbelievable amount of white noise hiss over the entire mix. Kick is muddy and lacking in beater 'click'.
  
  4th clip sounds like a proper 808 with crappy YouTube mp3 compression again.

Just find an 808 sample (loads around) and do any of the above, and resample.

Or, if you really want to get technical, check out this 'tutorial' - you won't get more precise than this:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb02/a ... ts0202.asp

[papamoll]

You'll need to describe the problem better. The 4 examples you give have wildly different kicks.

• 1st clip is a noisy 808 sample. Noise could be from vinyl or a noisy desk, hard to tell.
  
  2nd clip is a typical 808 recreation (nearly there but not quite) crusted up with YouTube compression.
  
  3rd clip has an unbelievable amount of white noise hiss over the entire mix. Kick is muddy and lacking in beater 'click'.
  
  4th clip sounds like a proper 808 with crappy YouTube mp3 compression again.

Just find an 808 sample (loads around) and do any of the above, and resample.

Or, if you really want to get technical, check out this 'tutorial' - you won't get more precise than this:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb02/a ... ts0202.asp

hey beatmunga, thanks for replying!

I agree that they are different kicks but they all have the specific sound that I am looking for in common. The sound I am looking for is probably most prominent in clip 3 (Fort Romeau - SW9). When you listen to the first 15 seconds of the song it's the easiest to pick out. I'm not looking for the overall white noise hiss of the mix but am referring to the very high pitched noise that seems to be layered on every beat of the kick drum. It sounds a bit "steely", almost like hammer hitting something made out of steel. I hear it in the other songs as well but it is louder in the Fort Romeau track.

[beatmunga]

The SW9 kick is nothing but sub - sounds like the pre-808 'thump' from very old analogue preset drum machines like the Korg Minipops. No higher 'metallic' element at all. An actual 808 does have a definite 'spike' at the beginning to simulate a upper mid range beater click, but that is missing from this example. Could be an 808 with all the top end eq'd out, or low pass filtered, or with the 'attack' knob turned right down.

Whatever it is from, it is a 'classic' analogue kick drum - a burst of low frequency sine wave that quickly sweeps from no more than 100hz to around 50hz. It sounds like it could be slightly overdriven, which does 'clip' off the tops of the otherwise smooth sine waves, turning them a bit more 'square' shaped. This introduces higher harmonics (square waves are more rich in integer harmonics than sines, which have none) but if this is going on it is extremely subtle.

Try heavily low pass filtering the 808 kick to remove all 'click', then adding more and more overdrive/distortion. If this doesn't get anywhere near the sound you have in your head, then you are either endowed with phenomenal listening skills, or are imagining something that may not be there after all...

Good luck!

PS there is a hell of a lot of compression, hiss and vinyl crackle on the beginning of that that clip... this makes finding anything too subtle in the upper frequencies quite difficult...

[beatmunga]

Just thought... you don't have something 'rattling' in your studio do you? A window or some metal objects for example? I'm intrigued by the 'metal on metal' 'steely' description. I really can't hear anything like that at all I'm afraid.

[papamoll]

haha ok. I am definitely losing my mind. I wanted to extract the sound of Fort Romeau in Ableton to try and explain what I mean but when I imported the track into Ableton or Adobe Audition that sound was gone. It seems to only be heard when I stream the song online via youtube or websites that offer free streaming of Fort Romeau's MP3. I tried all browsers (Firefox, Chrome, IE) and I can hear it whenever I stream. However, the actual MP3 is missing that sound.

Here for exmaple I hear it when I stream the mp3 in the browser but not when I download the free MP3 and play it with Ableton, Adobe Audition or VLC:

http://www.xlr8r.com/mp3/2012/03/sw9

So I suppose what I hear is some kind of compression that happens when streaming audio with web browsers? haha oh man

update: yup just streamed the song from my phone and I don't hear the sound. must be the soundcard of my laptop in combination with streaming music. no wonder you didn't hear what I heard haha sorry man. topic closed.

[beatmunga]

Hey, listen, maybe you've discovered a nice effect...

Get a load of subby kicks through the same process, record the results and post them here!

[papamoll]

haha maybe. I am sure it will sound awful to anybody else but that's how I would hear most songs so the effect grew on me. I figured it's just part of the mechanical sound of the 808 which is a machine after all lol probably undesirable for anybody else.

[jpga]

Hello!
I would try bazzism.
http://www.ismism.de/BazzISM.htm

All the best,,

Jp

[ollyb303]

I think I know the sound you mean... I haven't listened to the examples at all, but from what you describe , I think I've heard this phenomenon before on soundcloud and other streaming sites. I believe it's due to compression down to 128kbps. Try doing that maybe?