wich should i get pro tools 10 or ableton live 8?

Discuss music production with Ableton Live.
patrick.olson86
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Re: wich should i get pro tools 10 or ableton live 8?

Post by patrick.olson86 » Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:21 pm

It appears you have a lot of options. Protools has a difficult user interface. Ableton has a friendly one. They both sound the same and can pretty much do the same things when it comes to beat making. IMO Ableton is better for beat making and using clips to toy around with ideas.

Or, you could always go find a used tape recorder and get some blank cassettes. Knock a few beats out with your hands and do a little beatboxing.. aww hell yeah!

Spectrumdisco
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Re: wich should i get pro tools 10 or ableton live 8?

Post by Spectrumdisco » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:06 am

As you have Logic, then Live would make a great partner.

beatmunga
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Re: wich should i get pro tools 10 or ableton live 8?

Post by beatmunga » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:44 am

Spectrumdisco wrote:As you have Logic, then Live would make a great partner.
+ 1

Unless you want to spend tens of thousands, Pro Tools will do nothing for your music that you can't allready do with Logic. In fact, Logic has far better standard plug ins. Space Designer for instance.

The only thing you'll gain from Pro Tools is an extra tick on your CV. And eye strain from trawling the net trying to find out what quaint key command the Digi people have assigned to everyday DAW functions (eg input monitoring on/off has a nice green button on the transport. Can you click it on and off? Can you f***. There's a totally random key command for it. Pain in the arse.)

Whilst Ableton is great for knocking up quick ideas, once you get used to Logic it can be a great beatmaker in itself. Ultrabeat is a really nice way to construct midi grooves.
mendeldrive wrote:NOBODY designs their own sounds... There is ZERO point in reinventing the wheel.

hmj
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Re: wich should i get pro tools 10 or ableton live 8?

Post by hmj » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:15 pm

These are two different beast. There are many differences but in a nutshell Pro Tools is INCREDIBLE for editing audio, recording and mixing. Nothing comes close.
Ableton is INCREDIBLE for composition, production workflow, loops manipulation and creativity, nothing comes close.

Truth is you can accomplish the same things on both but the way you get there is different. My advice is pick one and master it.

But for the record, Pro Tools is the industry standard hands down. All the big studios, movie and post houses, engineers, mixers, assistants are using Pro Tools, anyone that tells you otherwise is distorting reality. You can't use Ableton in a big studio because it's not really made with all the outboard gear, analog desk, million dollar equipment in mind. That's not an opinion, it's literally not capable of handling hardware insets and supporting them with delay compensation & such. Also, Live doesn't support the Eucon protocal and the arrange window isn't sample accurate. There are also many questions about Abletons sound quality. It's usually not even considered in fidelity conversations in some pro circles.

Ableton is made for 2 things.

1. People at home, wearing headphones with a midi controller.
2. People performing live that need a flexible, dependable digital system to run audio from.

That's not a knock on Ableton at all or the people who use it like that, many of them are very successful in the current EDM scene. It's just a fundamental difference and why many traditional professionals can't really take it serious.

It really depends on your needs but since you're asking this question in an Ableton forum I assume you're not using big boy toys so I would just go with Ableton.

Opz
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Re: wich should i get pro tools 10 or ableton live 8?

Post by Opz » Fri Jun 08, 2012 1:47 pm

hmj wrote:But for the record, Pro Tools is the industry standard hands down. All the big studios, movie and post houses, engineers, mixers, assistants are using Pro Tools, anyone that tells you otherwise is distorting reality. You can't use Ableton in a big studio because it's not really made with all the outboard gear, analog desk, million dollar equipment in mind. That's not an opinion, it's literally not capable of handling hardware insets and supporting them with delay compensation & such. Also, Live doesn't support the Eucon protocal and the arrange window isn't sample accurate. There are also many questions about Abletons sound quality. It's usually not even considered in fidelity conversations in some pro circles.

Ableton is made for 2 things.

1. People at home, wearing headphones with a midi controller.
2. People performing live that need a flexible, dependable digital system to run audio from.

That's not a knock on Ableton at all or the people who use it like that, many of them are very successful in the current EDM scene. It's just a fundamental difference and why many traditional professionals can't really take it serious.

It really depends on your needs but since you're asking this question in an Ableton forum I assume you're not using big boy toys so I would just go with Ableton.

I like both and I agree with you for the most part, but the part I quoted will likely get some people to start bitching and telling you otherwise haha
Probably just a matter of time before they start flaming, make irrelevant comments or whatever lol.

kitekrazy
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Re: wich should i get pro tools 10 or ableton live 8?

Post by kitekrazy » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:24 pm

naburo wrote:I like both!

Live for jamming and creating tracks
PT for mixing and mastering

cheers
I like this response. Unfortunately with PT you travel down a world of proprietary stuff. I try to avoid those. Instead of PT I would look at Reaper.

patrick.olson86
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Re: wich should i get pro tools 10 or ableton live 8?

Post by patrick.olson86 » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:47 pm

That may be true (seriously, I really don't know). But buying all of that expensive gear for protools (referring to the dedicated mix boards/desks they build)... is it really necessary?

Couldn't you achieve the same results with a quality mixboard that works with ableton? I mean, you can have all the outboard racks you want for processing and still use Live.

Pro tools is the industry standard, though, so going from studio to studio with your projects would be tough. You would have to bounce your audio down on a track by track basis and then grab an engineer who knows pro-tools to help you out. If you decide to go down that route, that is..

In my opinion, however, it doesn't matter what DAW you use as long as you know how to use it. There are many famous producers and musicians who use Logic/ProTools/Ableton/Acid/CakeWalk/FruityLoops... dude, you name it they've used it. Since you're on a Live message board I'm assuming you have some interest in how Live works and what it can do for you. Try out the demo and see if you like it. It's great for arrangement, DJing, coming up with ideas on the fly, and recording MIDI. Sound quality is the same as ProTools. I prefer Live because it offers more flexibility with the clip view and arrangement view. Even if you're not planning on DJing with the clip view, you may end up using it when you're stuck in a rut with your arrangements as it's tailored more towards improv. Who knows, you might get the itch to DJ.

I recommend Live. I've used both. Started on ProTools and was not a fan. Maybe it was my lack of product knowledge, but I found that pro-tools was just an excuse to nickle and dime you to buy everything that Ableton gives you up front. Just me though..

Opz
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Re: wich should i get pro tools 10 or ableton live 8?

Post by Opz » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:12 pm

patrick.olson86 wrote: I prefer Live because it offers more flexibility with the clip view and arrangement view.
I agree Clip view is very flexible. But to me Arrangement view is not at all flexible and was the reason to mix in an other DAW. Why can't I open up for instance Drum Racks in Arrangement view so I can mix/edit the individual tracks contained in it? Working in Arrangement view, you have to hit tab if you want to go to the 'mixer'. Only non-Live plugins can float or be put on a second monitor.
Maybe it was my lack of product knowledge, but I found that pro-tools was just an excuse to nickle and dime you to buy everything that Ableton gives you up front. Just me though..
PT can't be bought online as far as I know. And the real fun with Live is in the Suite imo if you look at the included instruments. Just the track count of the normal PT10 Native (normal native is without CPTK) is a big let down. So if you're honest and compare the boxed version of Live Suite with PT10, then Live is more expensive.
Still, I found an MBox mini for €100, upgraded PT LE to PT10 and it cost me less than Ableton Live has cost me.
But.. I love both DAWs, each have their own strengths imo. Live for production, PT for tracking and mixing.
Last edited by Opz on Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.

andydes
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Re: wich should i get pro tools 10 or ableton live 8?

Post by andydes » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:14 pm

Do you actually need or anticipate needing the "industry standard" or is it just a case of hearing that's what the pros use, and therefore that's what you should have?

beatmunga
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Re: wich should i get pro tools 10 or ableton live 8?

Post by beatmunga » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:20 pm

andydes wrote:Do you actually need or anticipate needing the "industry standard" or is it just a case of hearing that's what the pros use, and therefore that's what you should have?
This has always been thr problem with PT.

It managed to get such a foot in the door of studios (thanks to its expensive hardware which was needed for multitracking on computers in the 90s) , that by accident or design it aquired a mistique of being something really special. It is hard to imagine it ever going away now.

People feel they need to mention a competence with it on their CV.

It is the Microsoft Office of DAWs. Only even more clunky to use.
mendeldrive wrote:NOBODY designs their own sounds... There is ZERO point in reinventing the wheel.

beatmunga
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Re: wich should i get pro tools 10 or ableton live 8?

Post by beatmunga » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:25 pm

Seriously, Ableton is the only major DAW that gives you things that Logic can't.
mendeldrive wrote:NOBODY designs their own sounds... There is ZERO point in reinventing the wheel.

Opz
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Re: wich should i get pro tools 10 or ableton live 8?

Post by Opz » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:31 pm

beatmunga wrote:Seriously, Ableton is the only major DAW that gives you things that Logic can't.
Ableton Live has a lot of great features that Logic or any other DAW doesn't offer, but Logic's midi capabilities go beyond that of Live imo. Especially when you connect (older) midi hardware.

andydes
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Re: wich should i get pro tools 10 or ableton live 8?

Post by andydes » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:42 pm

Opz wrote:
beatmunga wrote:Seriously, Ableton is the only major DAW that gives you things that Logic can't.
Ableton Live has a lot of great features that Logic or any other DAW doesn't offer, but Logic's midi capabilities go beyond that of Live imo. Especially when you connect (older) midi hardware.
I think the point was there's a bigger difference between live and logic than protools and logic. Unless there's a good reason to go with protools, Live offers more variety in ways of working.

beatmunga
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Re: wich should i get pro tools 10 or ableton live 8?

Post by beatmunga » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:44 pm

Opz wrote:
beatmunga wrote:Seriously, Ableton is the only major DAW that gives you things that Logic can't.
Ableton Live has a lot of great features that Logic or any other DAW doesn't offer, but Logic's midi capabilities go beyond that of Live imo. Especially when you connect (older) midi hardware.
Oh yeah, absolutely, don't get me wrong - Live also has more infuriating quirks and ommissions than any other DAW (except perhaps Reason).

If the OP allready has Logic then the addition of Live will cover all the bases they'll ever need, bar a 24+ i/o recording facility.
mendeldrive wrote:NOBODY designs their own sounds... There is ZERO point in reinventing the wheel.

Opz
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Re: wich should i get pro tools 10 or ableton live 8?

Post by Opz » Fri Jun 08, 2012 5:53 pm

beatmunga wrote:If the OP allready has Logic then the addition of Live will cover all the bases they'll ever need, bar a 24+ i/o recording facility.
Very true indeed, I said a similar thing in one of my first posts that having Logic as well is reason enough not to go PT and just get Live.

I don't understand the 'bar a 24+ i/o recording facility' part though. Do you mean the interface that comes with PT HD(X)? PT10 Native runs with basically any audio interface.

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