Live users with disabilities and injuries

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
fishmonkey
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Re: Live users with disabilities and injuries

Post by fishmonkey » Mon Jul 16, 2012 8:19 am

the Magic Mouse is definitely not good for you; having to make little clawing motions to scroll is bad. i have the trackpad too, but mostly only use it for scrolling, which is what it is best at.

for most stuff i use a full-size trackball, which i find is ergonomically far better than either a mouse or trackpad. i have one with four buttons surrounding the ball, which means that every finger is used, and the movements are far more natural. i do a lot of computer time at the moment, and rarely have hand pain any more.

do you touch type? that makes a big difference too. hunt and peck is a killer on your arms/shoulders/neck.

cpyatak
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Re: Live users with disabilities and injuries

Post by cpyatak » Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:33 pm

I think this is a good thread, even if I'm not injured/disabled. Props for opening up about it, Funken.

I had one thought, have you tried using Dragon? It's a dictation program that types as you speak. I think it slowly learns your voice and intonation of speech as well, getting better at transcribing the longer you use it. I'm sure there are other programs out there, I just haven't heard of them. My ex-boss is severely dyslexic, and in the office he used Dragon and it helped him out a lot. It's not perfect, like any current dictation program (think: SIRI or Android Voice to text), but it may help at least with your blog. (Which I think is great, by the way and... I'm a PC user) :)

Keep on keepin on. Good things happen.

Cheers,
Chris

Tone Deft
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Re: Live users with disabilities and injuries

Post by Tone Deft » Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:41 pm

why not lay off the internet usage for a while?
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

donmich
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Re: Live users with disabilities and injuries

Post by donmich » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:26 pm

When the company I worked for shut its operations in my region I decided to get back into music and get my masters in design. The program I am in focuses on accessibility and Inclusive design practices. I work with people everyday who have "disabilities" rangng from nominal to severe, from temporary to degenerative.

One guy in particular loves making music and owns cubase. He is confined to a wheelchair and only has partial use of his hands - cant lift his arms.

Whats interesting is that a lot of great inventions and interface designs have been developed to facilitate disabled artists musicians - from eye movement and breath control driven devices to assistive devices for sight and hearing impaired people. Much of the time the R&D for these things gets repurposed into more general use stuff.

I was surprised and delighted to see this thread. Now that it has come up I realize that I havent explored the useability aspects of the music software I use. Duh. For instance I wonder how screen readers work with ableton.

One thing I can assure Hermaneus is that anyone with a disability would appreciate this thread. The occaisional person giving a shit is not the first thing on their list of problems.

Tone Deft
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Re: Live users with disabilities and injuries

Post by Tone Deft » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:49 pm

funken wrote:Yeah, I should I suppose. I'm doing it one handed, having lots of breaks and stuff, sitting up straight.
8O if it's that bad, screw using the computer at all. you're doing it to yourself.
I've got nothing else to do really, apart for go on short walks.
nothing?
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

donmich
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Re: Live users with disabilities and injuries

Post by donmich » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:15 pm

Tone Deft wrote:
funken wrote:Yeah, I should I suppose. I'm doing it one handed, having lots of breaks and stuff, sitting up straight.
8O if it's that bad, screw using the computer at all. you're doing it to yourself.
I've got nothing else to do really, apart for go on short walks.
nothing?
Its hard walking away from your passion. Especially if its sort of forced upon you through unwanted circumstances.

Rather than push potential disabled users away, even if they are in the minority, the computer, audio and music industries are in a unique position to devise ways to include them that can bring greater quality and meaning into their lives. There may even be funding and potentially exciting partnerships to help with that.

In some places, like where I live, accessibility standards, beyond ramps and special toilets are being put into law - Which on one hand can alienate and drive businesses away, because its forced. But on another, innovative companies can channel it into genuine business opportunities. Not just for the disabled but for the aging population. While something like electronic music/audio production may appear to be the domain of the young, many of the true masters are boomers and will find it harder and harder to use their tools as their bodies age.
Last edited by donmich on Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tone Deft
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Re: Live users with disabilities and injuries

Post by Tone Deft » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:16 pm

that's a sad sad story. :cry:
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

donmich
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Re: Live users with disabilities and injuries

Post by donmich » Mon Jul 16, 2012 7:19 pm

Tone Deft wrote:that's a sad sad story. :cry:
Which story is that?

UncleAge
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Re: Live users with disabilities and injuries

Post by UncleAge » Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:51 pm

funken wrote:Any disabled or semi-disabled Live users on here? How do you adapt? Personally I have poor eyesight caused by a long term eye condition. Everything is zoomed. ...
I'm not legally disabled. But I'm not far off. Summer of 2011 I caught a thing called valley fever. It happens in a few deserts around the world and it happened to me here in Phoenix. People that catch valley fever can have problems ranging from almost not knowing they have it, all the way to dying from it. For me it left me with a semi-permanant case of vertigo. I'm also losing my eye-sight. I am centrally blind in my left eye and will probably lose the sight in my right eye if they can't figure out what's the cause (the same damage has been done to both). I haven't worked for a year and its a bit strange to all of a sudden have so little control over your own existence.

Most days I get by. If I feel extremely well I can drive. When things are at their worse I can't walk across the room. I've had sooo many tests over the last year that I have forgotten a few. And most days I spend an enourmous amount of time in front of my iMac. If I'm making music then I'm most likely using Live. But I have started to think about buying a bass again. I sold my guitar and bass last year and I think it was a huge mistake. I've played guitar for over 30 years so if I do lose my eyesight completely I'd love to have one of them around to play. Either that or I may sell a few things and pick up one of those nice Casio Privia pianos. I should be able to find the on/off switch in the dark.

As far as Live goes I think it's awesome that I can zoom the interface. Its a big help really. I don't write as much music as I used to because I'm still trying to adapt to the new circumstances. (funken, I'm sure you'll understand that part.) That and I am usually on quite a few painkillers (head pain issues) at any given time so I nap a lot like my Newfoundland :) There are some positives though, like... I'm getting pretty good with Sampler. And I finally found the time to sit down and start to really learn Zebra and really, synthesis in general. Zebra really is a work of art once you learn where everything is and find your own sound design workflow. Don't get me wrong I'm not a guru by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not intimidated anymore. As a matter of fact, after many hours with Zebra and Alchemy I really appreciate Operator a lot more. And I find Live to be an awesome instrument in its own right.

I'm not sure what's around the corner for me but I'm hoping to get back to something that resembles normal. And if not then so be it. I'm gonna stay with Live til I go blind. Next month they are going to do a spinal tap to see if they can get a better grasp on some of my issues. Who knows, but that will probably be the first time in a year when I'll finally have an idea of what the future holds. Best believe that if I'm breathing I'll be playing something somewhere.

Beleive it or not, all of that was to say, yes, there are others on the board with some issues/injuries and whatnot. Trust, it aint just you. Keep your head up and I hope you have more good days than bad funken!

rakim87
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Re: Live users with disabilities and injuries

Post by rakim87 » Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:32 am

i have a condition but i don't really know what to call it. i think it's my nerves, my hands get shaky if i get much exercise or if i'm in an intense situation, i've had something similar to a seizure many times (but i had an MRI and it says it's not a seizure). i don't know if it's relevant to the nerve issue but i can't watch much tv either, i stopped playing video games a year ago maybe, i get really disoriented when i play them now. so i know how you feel, i can't stay on the computer for a long time. i just do things in small doses. i usually play piano instead and when i'm feeling creative i jump on ableton. i work on something for awhile and then once i feel like i've reached my tolerance level i just put it aside.

being too determined can hurt you sometimes. if it's bothering you to be on the computer just put it aside, you can always come back to it.

also, once i got into holistic medicine a lot of the smaller issues i've had have cleared up or got easier to handle. (accupuncture, tui na, reiki, etc etc.). everyone needs something different but thought it might be worth mentioning.
ImageImage

HeadrickProductions
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Re: Live users with disabilities and injuries

Post by HeadrickProductions » Tue Jul 17, 2012 1:47 am

fishmonkey wrote:
knotkranky wrote:Good luck with all that funken. If ya haven;t looked already, medicinal foods and veg juicing can offer a lot relief for most problems.

Really sorry to hear Leadsquietman had passed. I liked that dude a lot.
yep, the right diet and exercise will really help, e.g. swimming, yoga, tai chi. you gotta get your body moving again in good ways, build strength and flexibility again.

gotta slip yourself out of the pain stress downward spiral.

@knotkranky: the main thread about Leeds passing is here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=156200
best advice in the thread.

Don't push past intense pain but at a certain point you have to start moving scar tissue, regaining flexiability in tendons in arm and wrist.

swimming can be great depending omn the kind of should issue you have. If you have mobile shoulder blades, or less than stable shoulder then swimming can make this worse. As well as yoga. Easy intro classes can be great but find someone who knows what they are doing, otherwise you can make things worse.

tai chi chuan is your best bet if you can again find someone who knows what they are doing.

also message therapy is great, but all this cost money and time.

Either way best of luck and step away from the computer for a while and go have fun outdoors

Live ain't worth causing life long injuries
In a K induced Haze (the old K kind not the special K kind ), but an Asian spizz can sometimes bring me out! If ya don't get it, ya never will.

Swing like your life depends on it

Forge.
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Re: Live users with disabilities and injuries

Post by Forge. » Tue Jul 17, 2012 2:21 am

funken wrote: Good point Forge. I do go for walks and when I do I often imagine tunes in my head, but they are always really odd things like brass bands!
ha ha - do you live in Yorkshire?

yup yup
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Re: Live users with disabilities and injuries

Post by yup yup » Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:17 am

Don't stop making music. Get off the meds [unless you have a serious episode of pain]
Look out for healer who isn't indoctrinated in western medicine. Takes a brave person to wake up and deal with depression and pain everyday. Respect. KEEP MAKING MUSIC!

oblique strategies
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Re: Live users with disabilities and injuries

Post by oblique strategies » Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:36 am

Forge. wrote:
oblique strategies wrote:
funken wrote:Unfortunately I'm finding that stress kills mood for making tunes for me...
I have found that this is true for me as well. Prolonged periods of stress are unproductive times for me.

:(
+1

actually I find when I am really not getting inspired, i have more luck playing a 'real' instrument, or writing lyrics, or even singing into a portable recorder - it removes the sedentary weird energy suck of the computer from the picture, which can be 90% of the problem these days when computers are virtually prosthetic limbs
Yes. Getting away from the computer, playing 'real' instruments, & singing are all excellent ways to re-kindle the right-brain functions! Just as using a computer tends to engage the left-brain functions. This is actually quite a divide.

I was thinking of how I used to work pre-computer: analog mixing desk, hardware signal processors, analog tape, etc. There was a great emphasis on using my ears & not my eyes. It was more abstract (staring off into space while turning knobs), & less 'scientific' (watching a graph or waveform).

This also tended to have a more 'magical' feeling, for want of a better word, of conjuring things out of thin air. And that was in itself inspiring. This generated a positive feedback loop that did not feel the same as the computer time-drain vortex that I sometimes feel. :?

Plus, analog gear is for music & NOTHING else. The computer is a multi-purpose device with a host of associations that have nothing to do with music. Again, this takes me out of that magic/music feeling & into a more mundane rational place. I think to be inspired with music-making one needs some irrationality.
Last edited by oblique strategies on Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Piplodocus
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Re: Live users with disabilities and injuries

Post by Piplodocus » Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:19 am

This thread's making me feel very lucky I've only got broken ribs, a buggered arm and lots of bruising short term!

(High speed mountain biking home from the pub late on a saturday night is dangerous when you gears lock up and the chain comes off)

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