How Do You Setup Your Drums?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
jkmaxwell
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Re: How Do You Setup Your Drums?

Post by jkmaxwell » Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:13 am

funken wrote:
scutheotaku wrote:This may not make sense to some people, but I actually place each drum hit in its own Simpler on its own MIDI track. Each drum hit also, obviously, gets its own MIDI clip.
same here, though I wanna try choking the hats in a rack some time
what i do allows this, it's basically yours + organizing everything on a drum rack to start

1. make a drum rack out of 8+ samplers
2. for each sampler, make a separate audio track (audio from corresponding drum rack channel) for it
3. bypass audio for each voice on the drum rack itself
(4.) if you want separate midi/note channels for each instrument in the rack, make indiv midi tracks that push midi to the drum rack

this lets you use the features of the drum rack with the multi out capability of separate channels.

that said, it always seemed stupid to me that i can't just run drum racks to individual outs in the first place. this is a bulky workaround! i still haven't found my ultimate easy ableton autoload, every time i get started i feel i have to start from scratch.

Slightlydelic
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Re: How Do You Setup Your Drums?

Post by Slightlydelic » Mon Sep 03, 2012 1:11 am

i use battery, if i can be bothered ill send columns to their own channel, if not i might use multiple instances of battery and make a group. tend to stick with the factory content cos its so good. cant be arsed with sound design, it spoils my music making experience.

Guff Tong
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Re: How Do You Setup Your Drums?

Post by Guff Tong » Mon Sep 03, 2012 12:50 pm

I used battery 2 exclusively way back, nowadays I often use battery's samples in drum racks.

Saying that, if I want to get a 'real' drum sound, battery's the best for the job.

w.

JuanSOLO
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Re: How Do You Setup Your Drums?

Post by JuanSOLO » Mon Sep 03, 2012 3:57 pm

jkmaxwell wrote:it always seemed stupid to me that i can't just run drum racks to individual outs in the first place. this is a bulky workaround!
I sort of agree, but I dont really understand what the difference is in what your describing, vs nesting drumRacks in DrumRacks and using sends as individual outs?

Someone in another DrumRack thread mentioned using 1 sample (i.e. a string of kicks/snares) per Sampler, to reduce CPU because Live was only dealing with 1 sample as opposed to 60 or more. I forget how to do this. Is this done by "slicing to drumRack" then nesting that rack inside of a DrumRack and using the Pitch effect to scroll through the samples?
OR is there something I forgot where you can set up a 'select/scroll' through one sample (i.e. a string of kicks/snares), using the sample start and end?

jkmaxwell
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Re: How Do You Setup Your Drums?

Post by jkmaxwell » Mon Sep 03, 2012 5:14 pm

JuanSOLO wrote:
jkmaxwell wrote:it always seemed stupid to me that i can't just run drum racks to individual outs in the first place. this is a bulky workaround!
I sort of agree, but I dont really understand what the difference is in what your describing, vs nesting drumRacks in DrumRacks and using sends as individual outs?
Hey, glad you guys found this interesting. I'll try to clarify.

So, make a drum rack. Put a few instruments in it. In session view, expand it (the disclosure triangle that opens the individual channels of the drum rack). Make sure i/o is visible. Note the "audio to" box is empty and uneditable. I'd like to be able to send audio to an external out, or route it to another track, from that, just like I can with a usual audio channel. Instead you need to first create a new audio track, tell it to get its audio from that drumrack channel, and use it as a middle-man.

JuanSOLO wrote:Someone in another DrumRack thread mentioned using 1 sample (i.e. a string of kicks/snares) per Sampler, to reduce CPU because Live was only dealing with 1 sample as opposed to 60 or more. I forget how to do this. Is this done by "slicing to drumRack" then nesting that rack inside of a DrumRack and using the Pitch effect to scroll through the samples?
OR is there something I forgot where you can set up a 'select/scroll' through one sample (i.e. a string of kicks/snares), using the sample start and end?
Not sure, I've never tried that, but honestly it sounds really annoying. Perhaps useful for Live in the current state of things, current technology, etc., but not useful in the future when these CPU issues are less relevant and your sample library organization is more important.

JuanSOLO
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Re: How Do You Setup Your Drums?

Post by JuanSOLO » Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:01 pm

jkmaxwell wrote: Instead you need to first create a new audio track, tell it to get its audio from that drumrack channel, and use it as a middle-man.
or just use sends/returns to individualize drumRack chains.

bkwsk
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Re: How Do You Setup Your Drums?

Post by bkwsk » Mon Sep 03, 2012 6:22 pm

Programming drums in midi is fun and easy (using Drum Racks) but in the end I always find it's lacking some more movement, incidentals and happy accidents throughout the song. For me, when I program drum racks, I usually do it until everything sounds like I want, and then end up repeating the same patterns too much just because I don't want to spend another 2 hours finding out what sounds good using MIDI and then changing my mind and tweaking it all the time. Therefore now I use the Simpler a lot more. I usually end up making a rack with two or three simplers when I want a layered sound, and sometimes I'll just drop a sample in an audio track and take it from there. I know the Simpler thing is pretty much like using a rack, but... I feel more "free" approaching it that way, and I think I waste a lot less time.

Of course I guess if I was preparing to do a full live set I'd probably go with drum racks and maybe dummy clips or whatever.

kevwestbeats
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Re: How Do You Setup Your Drums?

Post by kevwestbeats » Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:31 am

dewaldo wrote:
kevwestbeats wrote:I am starting to get into drum racks after really falling in love with using Kong with Reason rewired to Live. I was using Giest for a while also and am considering grabbing Maschine because its library seems intersting well maschine does too but really its library is a turn on maybe even the mpc ren I am a drumaholic I also use Addictive drums from time to time
What made you ditch the Rewired Kong setup? That's what I'm running right now and am lovin it...can't see a real need for Ableton drumracks if you have Kong.
I didn't notice this before. Anyway I ditched Kong for single shot samples because drum racks offers more flexibility with samples when it comes to mixing over Kong. I still love Kong and use it as a drum synth and for its own kits which I think are superb but I have gone totally drum racks or Addictive Drums for the most part. Looking at maybe grabbing Spark Vintage for a nice collection of vintage drums as well.
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ian_halsall
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Re: How Do You Setup Your Drums?

Post by ian_halsall » Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:26 am

you can setup 127 drum racks within an instrument rack and then use the chain selector to whizz through them with a single knob.

does that work?

JuanSOLO
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Re: How Do You Setup Your Drums?

Post by JuanSOLO » Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:41 pm

ian_halsall wrote:you can setup 127 drum racks within an instrument rack and then use the chain selector to whizz through them with a single knob.
Yes, but it does not whiz through them.
For example if you start working on a midi file in Arrange View, it will be slow to respond, simple stuff like 'duplicate' will choke Live pretty good.

Maybe 4 kits, instead of 127.

On the other hand, why not just use the hotswap feature?

ian_halsall
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Re: How Do You Setup Your Drums?

Post by ian_halsall » Tue Sep 04, 2012 2:58 pm

Hotswap is ok for development of songs but I thought OP wanted to switch kits in a performance or song.

I must admit I haven't tried to use the chain selector for this but just made the suggestion as something else to try.

lasersounds
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Re: How Do You Setup Your Drums?

Post by lasersounds » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:35 pm

This has taken me years to figure out but i have found a formula that works 100% of the time and sounds effin great.

First of all use good samples(most of abletons drum machine samples sound horrible, the real ones are good, but by and large get some other samples)

Then, set up a send and return inside the drum rack.

Put the NY compressor preset in there(i believe its under dynamics presets.

Then put the reverb you need in there(i prefer the live one, "realistic stereo" preset)

Send the kick to the parallel compressor, and get the levels right.

Then send the snare to the comp, until it sounds good.

Then send the other shit, but to a lessor degree. Now send the snare and HH and stuff to the reverb til they sound good. Then send a bit of the kick(HP filter if you need)

Now put some sort of LA2A compressor on the whole channel, i prefer the waves LA3A plug, but any LA2A will work.

Bam, done, they sound fuckin great. Maybe solo each thing with a spectrum and find where they are loudest and EQ to fit.

Slightlydelic
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Re: How Do You Setup Your Drums?

Post by Slightlydelic » Tue Sep 04, 2012 8:56 pm

ian_halsall wrote:you can setup 127 drum racks within an instrument rack and then use the chain selector to whizz through them with a single knob.

does that work?

its by far better done in Sampler.

matthews
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Re: How Do You Setup Your Drums?

Post by matthews » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:37 pm

Looking for a little guidance if anyone has any suggestions...

Currently I'm doing the sampler chain selector trick for my drums. So I'll put a bunch of kick that I like into a sampler, and then distribute values equally across the chain, and then throw the sampler into a drum rack and map the chain selector to a macro. This works pretty decent for me, except I can't then play the specified sample across the keyboard, it just acts as an individual one shot, as its designed to...

I'd like to be able to bypass the drum rack section if possible, so that I can play the sample across my midi keyboard, but still have a constant macro knob to change the sample. I'm aware I can just map the chain selector, but I'd have to do that everytime I insert the rack, I'd like to have a macro control that's consistent and built into the rack somehow...

Any suggestions?

JuanSOLO
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Re: How Do You Setup Your Drums?

Post by JuanSOLO » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:06 pm

You asking for a few different things here in regards to how drumRacks work.
ALSO, what are you using to trigger the "Selected," a drum pad or the same keys on the keyboard?

It takes tricky routing to play all your keyboard keys across kicks, AND have a selection for kicks.

If you drop in a default drumRack and play your keyboard you will see all the cells lighting up.
The default for drumRack is that behavior.
I suggest working this way if you want NO HASSLE play across keys, and keep it simple by filling up the cells.


There are I/O settings you can change this behavior buy setting what notes trigger each cell, "ALL NOTES" is one of the settings.
Now if you nest a drumRack in a drumRack, you can layer this behavior.
Input "ALL NOTES" on the host rack, and select individual inputs for the nested rack.
You can play with those and try to figure out something that might work.

Using blank MIDI TRACKS to recieve keys from your key board on different midi channels and using the MIDI TO menu and sub menues, is something else to look into.

Using the MidiEffect pitch, before a Sampler will let you select samples spread out over the "key zone" instead of the chain selection.

Somewhere in those combinations of things you can find a solution or workaround.

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