Why do many people bounce audio into Logic for mixdown?

[trevox]

Anyway, don't curves usually get 'drawn' by knob twiddling?

Not sure I would want to painstakingly record the automation for a 60 second exponential fade in or out - apart from anything else, it would take at least 60 seconds! Accurate and/or lengthy curves do not get drawn by knob twiddling - or at least it is not very practical.

How is it not practical? And how the hell do you think records were made before automation? Although admittedly the SSL Bus Comp has a fade-out button, but still.

Because you would have to spend time painstaking moving a knob really slowly at exact rates to try and emulate an exponential curve. And instead of taking 5 seconds with a tool, it would take at least the time of the fade to do - maybe even more that that if you make an arse of it and have to do it again. But I agree, this is exactly the way it was done before automation and it was a pain in the bollox.

Maybe practical was the wrong word to use - I should have just said it is a pain in the arse and unnecessarily time consuming now that we have tools to do this.

[Tarekith]

If I start a project in Live, I tend to keep it in Live for the mixdown too. That said, if clients send me files for mixdowns, I pretty much always use Logic for these reasons:

- When you drag in files to the arrange view, the tracks get named the same thing as the audio files. Huge time saver.

- The volume fader handles are bigger and easier to 'grab' with the mouse.

- Automation support is much better, especially being able to scale your previously drawn automations.

- Better reverb, nuff said.

- Way more key commands, and they're customizable too. Huge time saver.

- Mp3 rendering, so I don't need switch to another app. Again, time is money and small steps like this save me time, and thus money.

I know these aren't deal breakers and tha there's workaround for most in Live, but those are my main reasons.

[Sage]

Maybe practical was the wrong word to use - I should have just said it is a pain in the arse and unnecessarily time consuming now that we have tools to do this.

My point is that these tools are far from essential to get a good mix (Although they do make life easier at times!) and being completely reliant on one piece of software is not a good place to be. I did try for a while moving projects from Live to Logic to mix them and found it a waste of time personally, so just stick to whatever software I started the project in. The only time it would be worth it is if I could mix with a decent desk (IMO of course!) or sending it to someone else.

[doctah x]

cuz it soundz bettah?

[trevox]

Maybe practical was the wrong word to use - I should have just said it is a pain in the arse and unnecessarily time consuming now that we have tools to do this.

My point is that these tools are far from essential to get a good mix (Although they do make life easier at times!) and being completely reliant on one piece of software is not a good place to be. I did try for a while moving projects from Live to Logic to mix them and found it a waste of time personally, so just stick to whatever software I started the project in. The only time it would be worth it is if I could mix with a decent desk (IMO of course!) or sending it to someone else.

Fair enough. As I said in a previous post, if you prefer doing everything in Live, that's great! Personally I find some of it frustrating and choose different tools for different tasks, that's all.

[pencilrocket]

My point is that these tools are far from essential to get a good mix (Although they do make life easier at times!)

If you get good result faster that could be called essential to get good mix in a limited period of time. If you tried to spend a lot of time you could get pleasing result even from Live 1

[kitekrazy]

Because people are weird?

I was thinking because they didn't have Pro Tools so they used something else.

[antarktika]

It always seemed to me I could push Logic a lot further before it started having CPU hiccups (i.e. more tracks, effects, etc...)though I may just be imagining things.

[hps909]

i bounce to cubase because i hate arrangement view and i've been using cubase since 1992

[dnbhallifax]

it's not just "curved automation"

file organization...
undo history...
different editing "modes"...
proper fade curves ...yes...
advanced keyboard shortcuts...
function macros...
batch renders...
advanced grouping...
advanced zoom..regions and markers...
multi-window support (mixer/arrangemt side by side)
SURROUND sound support...
VST3 ....

etc...etc....etc...

Definitely... It's also a way to approach the mixdown as a separate process from the writing stage... The mix process is a completely separate beast. If you were a band and went into record in a studio, you wouldn't record and mix each song one by one, you track everything first, then mix all of the songs as a separate process. It's part workflow, and part giving your ears a break before you mix... Not only that, it's not uncommon for bands to record in one studio, and mix in another...
And without a doubt, Logic's built in effects are much better sounding than Live's. Overall, Live is missing some really simple features that are just basic nuts and bolts that make mixing a lot quicker and easier ...

[3dot...]

I agree that starting the new process fresh is also something appealing..
but you can do that in Live as well...
I don't think recording a band is the same process as mixing electronic music..
in electronic music I think...
mixing and dynamics are part of the composition process...
but I understand the "need" to start a fresh session in another program...

most of the times.. imho
it's not worth the hassle..of exporting importing..
especially if you have good vsts anyways ...
and are not dependent on this or that DAWs built-in stuff
in any case it's definitly not a "must" to go to other DAW..
it's a matter of comfort I think...

[Citizen]

Thanks for the detailed responses guys - that has really cleared things up.

I actually start 75% of my projects in Maschine, which is a great little sketchpad for playing with different patterns, samples and drum sounds...but not much else!

Hence I export things from there INTO Ableton for arranging and mixdown

So you guys are basically doing your whole creative process (ie. sound design, recording, arranging) in Live - but doing all your mixing and automation in Logic (or another DAW) - thats the basic workflow, right?

I've heard a few people (here, and elsewhere) raise issue with the quality of Live's in built effects - are they really that bad?

[3dot...]

live fx are excellent imo...

[Nick Shepherd]

they can sound a bit "bland" on their own compared to some 3rd party plug-ins which colour the sound more or are emulating analogue gear.

but the fact that they are so light on the cpu and really start to shine when you combine several effects to create a "unique modular effect" makes them very very cool & fun to use imho

[Tarekith]

I think live's effects sound fine myself, I use them all the time instead of 3rd party tools.