Operator's bass is deeper than my hardware synths

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
djadonis206
Posts: 6490
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:23 pm
Location: Seattle, WA.

Operator's bass is deeper than my hardware synths

Post by djadonis206 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:09 am

Curious - a simple sine wave in Operator produces a deeper bass than my slim phatty (which is a triangle) or virus. Even after turning the external instruments up the Virus comes kind of close, but Operator wins the sub bass war

Interesting?
Ableton | Elektron

Music

Tone Deft
Posts: 24154
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm

Re: Operator's bass is deeper than my hardware synths

Post by Tone Deft » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:40 am

sound card limitation on the inputs? try sending Operator out of the computer and back in through the same path. make sure the RIAA curve isn't being applied on the inputs as well.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

3dot...
Posts: 9996
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 11:10 pm

Re: Operator's bass is deeper than my hardware synths

Post by 3dot... » Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:55 am

or that the hipass isn't on (if you have a mixer) for the track
Image

djadonis206
Posts: 6490
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:23 pm
Location: Seattle, WA.

Re: Operator's bass is deeper than my hardware synths

Post by djadonis206 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:22 am

3dot... wrote:or that the hipass isn't on (if you have a mixer) for the track
Curious what you mean by this. Do you think the soundcard has a high pass filter/eq on?

Tone - I ran the Operator out and back in, still deeper and more full.

I'm not hating on this strange phenomenon, it just seems odd
Ableton | Elektron

Music

JES
Posts: 103
Joined: Sun Nov 07, 2004 5:52 pm

Re: Operator's bass is deeper than my hardware synths

Post by JES » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:27 am

People think digital synths can't have a deep low end. They can. It's just different.

fishmonkey
Posts: 4218
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 4:50 am

Re: Operator's bass is deeper than my hardware synths

Post by fishmonkey » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:34 am

also a pure sine wave is very different to a triangle wave, which is built from a series of odd harmonics (of decreasing amplitude).

a deep sine wave will always sound more full-bodied than a triangle wave based on the same fundamental frequency.

djadonis206
Posts: 6490
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:23 pm
Location: Seattle, WA.

Re: Operator's bass is deeper than my hardware synths

Post by djadonis206 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:58 am

Good point because I can almost get there with a sine wave on the Virus, but the Operator sounds just that much deeper.

I have no problem throwing the Operator underneath my synth parts to give my music some depth and tension - a little hardware mixed with a little software. that's what's up
Ableton | Elektron

Music

mauronedj
Posts: 311
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:20 pm

Re: Operator's bass is deeper than my hardware synths

Post by mauronedj » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:00 am

What sound card do you have???

Are you sure that the Phatty and the Virus are connected in the Line input?

The sine is the most perfect wave that you can make, so a cheap converter may not A/D it very well!

JM2C

ian_halsall
Posts: 1711
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 8:52 am
Location: South London
Contact:

Re: Operator's bass is deeper than my hardware synths

Post by ian_halsall » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:16 am

most likely the sine wave generator in the hardware synths is sampling from a wavetable of values representing a sinewave - dependingin on how it's implemented on both systems the resulting 'real' wave may be less or more like a 'real' sine wave.

You need an analogue oscilloscope to 'see' this.

Or just accept it and move on.

djadonis206
Posts: 6490
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 4:23 pm
Location: Seattle, WA.

Re: Operator's bass is deeper than my hardware synths

Post by djadonis206 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:55 pm

ian_halsall wrote: Or just accept it and move on.
djadonis206 wrote: I'm not hating on this strange phenomenon...
djadonis206 wrote: I have no problem throwing the Operator underneath my synth parts to give my music some depth and tension - a little hardware mixed with a little software. that's what's up
djadonis206 wrote: Operator wins the sub bass war
I'm using a NI Komplete Audio 6. I've tried connecting both the Moog and Virus to the line ins and Operator still comes out on top. I'll admit, not by much, but just enough.
Ableton | Elektron

Music

yur2die4
Posts: 6550
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 3:02 am
Location: Menasha, Wisconsin
Contact:

Re: Operator's bass is deeper than my hardware synths

Post by yur2die4 » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:01 pm

It is more pure. Being a digital representation. But also, everything around you plays into it. The type of speakers. Connections. Wiring. And if placed into music, context and mixing can affect the resulting oomph. Some find different degrees of 'character' in their sines more desirable.

Have you used Spectrum? I also like playing with s(m)exoscope. A freeware vst.

What will you do next? Compare saws? That could have some very interesting results. Especially at different octaves.

simmerdown
Posts: 3761
Joined: Wed Oct 26, 2011 3:36 pm
Location: Northwest Nowhere

Re: Operator's bass is deeper than my hardware synths

Post by simmerdown » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:29 pm

this op does not surprise me, when i first heard the operator sub a lil poo peeked out
Last edited by simmerdown on Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

twisted-space
Posts: 1253
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 5:50 pm
Location: UK Midlands

Re: Operator's bass is deeper than my hardware synths

Post by twisted-space » Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:56 pm

simmerdown wrote:this op does not surprise me, when i first had the operator sub a lil poo peeked out

That's more information than we needed.

lasersounds
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 5:04 am

Re: Operator's bass is deeper than my hardware synths

Post by lasersounds » Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:22 am

Tone Deft wrote:sound card limitation on the inputs? try sending Operator out of the computer and back in through the same path. make sure the RIAA curve isn't being applied on the inputs as well.

The RCA(RIAA) curve is ONLY for phono RCA style inputs. So unless dude is plugging his virus into phono-preamps, i really doubt this has anything to do with it.

Tone Deft
Posts: 24154
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 5:19 pm

Re: Operator's bass is deeper than my hardware synths

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Aug 22, 2012 3:47 pm

lasersounds wrote:
Tone Deft wrote:sound card limitation on the inputs? try sending Operator out of the computer and back in through the same path. make sure the RIAA curve isn't being applied on the inputs as well.

The RCA(RIAA) curve is ONLY for phono RCA style inputs. So unless dude is plugging his virus into phono-preamps, i really doubt this has anything to do with it.
I know. I also know he's been a gigging DJ so he's used to using the phono inputs.

it's not a clinical answer, just throwing ideas out there.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

Post Reply