x-station audio latency in live 4

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
AdamJay
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Location: Indianapolis, USA

Post by AdamJay » Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:18 pm

Dogen, indeed!

I think if that functionality is possible, it becomes a great solution for farming off cpu we'd use on softsynths onto a hard synth. And since theres the USB interface, it becomes a sort of USB DSP synth (with a little latency). And its almost a bonus that its not a plugin like the Virus TI is, in that live has no PDC. With hardware we can adjust the overall latency in preferences to make up for it, if it were a plugin with latency, we'd have to buss all our other channels into a latency plugin.

handy stuff.

shtreimel
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Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:45 am

Post by shtreimel » Mon Apr 11, 2005 8:47 pm

Dogen wrote:Also, you'll want to update the X-Station OS if it's below version 2.3.
Wow, thanks for the info Dogen. Helpful.

One more...quick tip on how to figure out which OS was bundled with my X-station. Thanks.

Dogen
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Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:38 pm

Post by Dogen » Mon Apr 11, 2005 9:02 pm

AdamJay: I'll let you know how it works. The only potential problem I can see is that when you're in synth mode, you can't use the controller aspect of the X-Station. However, you could always use your MIDI clip in Live to play the synth and then just record that signal into a new audio clip therefore freeing up the controller and/or synth for further use.

shtreimel: I'm not in front of it at the moment but if I remember correctly, you hold down the 'Input' button while you're powering on the X-Station. It will then display the OS version very quickly on the screen as it's booting up. If that's not it, I'll verify the correct button combo this evening.

Dogen

Dogen
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Post by Dogen » Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:43 pm

Thanks for the suggestion AdamJay. I tried it out last night and it worked flawlessly. I was able to program a MIDI clip and send it out through the X-Station and then record the audio signal from the X-Station into an audio clip while tweaking parameters in realtime. Very nice!

Dogen

AdamJay
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Location: Indianapolis, USA

Post by AdamJay » Tue Apr 12, 2005 6:52 pm

Dogen, thats awesome.

i may have to pick up one of those then.
i can use a new set of keys anyway, and this adds a built in synth that has external DSP capabilities with good Live 4 interfacability.

How was the overall latency of using the X-station in this manner in Live 4?

Dogen
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Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:38 pm

Post by Dogen » Tue Apr 12, 2005 7:11 pm

The latency was not noticable at all. I threw in a couple of drum loops and then recorded three MIDI clips to X-Station synth to audio clips and everything was totally tight.

The other great thing about the X-Station is that the keys are semi-weighted and it also has a nicely implemented aftertouch so the feel is incredibly solid and smooth. Substantially better than most controllers out there. And every single KS patch has very intelligently programmed aftertouch so it's a very fun synth to play.

Dogen

shtreimel
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Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:45 am

Post by shtreimel » Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:11 pm

Dogen wrote:Thanks for the suggestion AdamJay. I tried it out last night and it worked flawlessly. I was able to program a MIDI clip and send it out through the X-Station and then record the audio signal from the X-Station into an audio clip while tweaking parameters in realtime. Very nice!

Dogen
Whoooo......details, details. How'd you manage this? I thought you can only record the hardware synth as audio, not as MIDI. Please be specific about the setup. Thanks so much Dogen.

shtreimel
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Post by shtreimel » Tue Apr 12, 2005 8:15 pm

Dogen wrote:I would recommend downloading the editor as it allows you to visually change your templates rather than using the display screen on the X-Station.

Can you supply a little more detail re: visually change templates? Guess I'm not even sure which templates you're refering to? And what they do.

Sorry boys, I'm a guitar player.

shtreimel
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Post by shtreimel » Tue Apr 12, 2005 10:10 pm

Dogen,

One more question...

I've downloaded the upgrade:
XStation2302.syx

but do not know how to install it. In the manual (pg. 29) it says "to install the os via the conventional MIDI port....

But I'm hooked up via USB. So is there any other way to install this update. Thanks.

shtreimel
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Post by shtreimel » Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:21 pm

shtreimel wrote:Dogen,

One more question...

I've downloaded the upgrade:
XStation2302.syx

but do not know how to install it. In the manual (pg. 29) it says "to install the os via the conventional MIDI port....

But I'm hooked up via USB. So is there any other way to install this update. Thanks.
Ok, so now I've updated the ASIO and MIDI drivers to 2.4.3 (ASIO) and 3010 MIDI.

I then installed the template editor and all seems well. However when I try to upload OS 2.3.02, on the PC it looks like it's uploading but my Novation remains as "WAITING NEW O/S". After a while, I shut down my Novation, reboot, and check the OS...it's still 2.0.10. Sigh. Any ideas?

Dogen
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Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:38 pm

Post by Dogen » Tue Apr 12, 2005 11:53 pm

shtreimel wrote:Whoooo......details, details. How'd you manage this? I thought you can only record the hardware synth as audio, not as MIDI. Please be specific about the setup.
Strictly speaking that is still true. Here's what I did:

1. Create a new MIDI clip and fill it with MIDI note data. You can either play a part and record it into an empty clip or just program it in the MIDI clip editor using the piano roll.
2. Show the in/out panel in Live and select the X-Station as the output destination for the track containing the MIDI clip you just created.
3. Put the X-Station into synth mode.
4. Create an empty audio track and arm it.
5. In the in/out panel, select "Ext in" as the source for the audio track. Once the MIDI clip is engaged, it will be playing the KS synth and its audio output will be going into the audio track.
6. Start recording on the audio track and you'll capture the output of your X-Station including any realtime tweaks you're making to the X-Y pad or any other controller.

The great thing about this approach is that you can sequence the KS synth instead of having to play everything on it live. Although that is sometimes the preferable solution.
shtreimel wrote:Can you supply a little more detail re: visually change templates? Guess I'm not even sure which templates you're refering to? And what they do.
The templates I'm referring to are the 40 preset MIDI control configurations that came with the X-Station. Some of them correspond to the physical overlays that came in the box.
shtreimel wrote:I've downloaded the upgrade: XStation2302.syx but do not know how to install it.
The easiest way to do it is to use the editor so I would suggest downloading the editor and OS update file. There's one for Mac and one for PC. The PC archive comes with an older audio driver but you don't need to install it.

First, install the editor. When you run it for the first time it will ask you what you want to do and one of these options is to update the OS. Select this option and it will ask you to select the OS update file and walk you through the rest of the process.

I'm not in front of the program right now and I'm just doing this from memory so I may be missing something. Let me know if this doesn't work and I'll confirm the method.

Good luck!

Dogen

shtreimel
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Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:45 am

Post by shtreimel » Wed Apr 13, 2005 12:54 am

Dogen wrote:
First, install the editor. When you run it for the first time it will ask you what you want to do and one of these options is to update the OS. Select this option and it will ask you to select the OS update file and walk you through the rest of the process.
Dogen,

That's exactly what I did, and it appears my Novation is hanging on "WAITING NEW O/S". However the editor on my PC appears to be uploading the new OS. Weird, huh? Regardless, I press "done" on the editor, close it, and then shut down, and reopen the x-station. Nada. My OS is still 2.0.10.

I sent Novation an email about this, but I'm not holding my breath for a reply. I sent 'em an email about something else a week ago and still haven't heard back from 'em.

Any ideas what to try next?
I've checked the audio and midi drivers and they're both up to date.

simon
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Post by simon » Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:19 am

I was having the same problem updating the OS with the editor, and I think what finally worked was using MIDI-OX to send the .syx.

The X-Station will definately give you further confirmation when it is getting the OS.

Dogen
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Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2005 9:38 pm

Post by Dogen » Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:50 pm

That is strange. I didn't have any problems using the editor to update the OS. Did you disable write-protect on the X-Station? That's the only thing I can think of.

As far as Novation support, I had a couple of issues when I first purchased mine and they responded within a day and got back to me right away with every question I had. So that surprises me that they've taken a week to get in touch. I would definitely contact them again.

Sorry I can't be of more help but I'm not sure why it wouldn't be working for you.

Dogen

shtreimel
Posts: 476
Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:45 am

Post by shtreimel » Wed Apr 13, 2005 6:46 pm

simon wrote: I think what finally worked was using MIDI-OX to send the .syx.
Simon,

Can you please elaborate on this. Thanks.

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