Remixing a beatless track

Bunzer · Post by **Bunzer** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 3:24 pm

Hi, I'm relatively new to Live and I'm having a bit of trouble using it to remix a track someone gave me. I know Live isn't really the best tool for this job, but I think the question might produce some interesting suggestions, so here goes...

The track is an acoustic guitar + vocals + pads + piano stero mix. I've dropped the 16 bit wave file into a Live slot. It was probably recorded without any backing rhythm as I had to insert warp markers every bar or two to get it to sync to the percussion loops I've added.

The problem I have is that, because I've speeded the track up a bit and inserted so many warp markers, the audible warp artifacts are pretty noticeable. I've experimented with using beats/tones/textures and using different parameters on each setting, but I can't significantly improve the sound.

Should I give this up as a bad idea? Is there some optimum bpm ratio (original:revised) I should aim for to reduce artifacts? What is the best warp method for a broad mix?

Another track I was working on gave me warp problems too, but this time is was purely a percussion loop which gave a noticeable click at the start of each loop - even though I'd made sure the beginning and end of the sample was quiet.

I guess, I need a bit of a lesson on warp technique. Any help would be much appreciated!! Thanks.

Harris.Andrew · Post by **Harris.Andrew** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:06 pm

Live is in fact the best tool for the job.

I like grain-based warping on whole tracks, the default beat-based warp works best on percussive material when you have _very_ precise warp markers and can stand a little mucking of the dynamics on the trailing edge of the sounds.

If you're doing a lot of tweaking of the warp markers to make things work . . . the "optimum bpm ratio" is probably something like 1:0.8 to 1:1.2 . . . too large of a time stretch percentage wise, and you will get very noticeable artifacts . . .

As far as warping whole tracks, there's a lot of posts on this forum covering that . . . check the tips&tricks section as well . . . non-electronic music will be much tougher to warp correctly of course . . . make sure you're using Live's metronome . . .

for the stuff with subtle bpm shifts . . . I like to make several duplicates of the track, arrange them in arrange, then warp smaller sub-sections of the track. It's a bit time-consuming, but not something that can't be done in one sitting.

Bunzer · Post by **Bunzer** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 5:49 pm

Thanks for the tips, H.A. I did search the forums for keywords but couldn't come up with anything quickly. So it looks like I'll have to be more patient and comb a bit more finely. Meanwhile, if anyone can pick out a relevant topic for me, that would be great

Grain-based warping? Is that using the Tones or Texture warp modes?

It's difficult to be accurate with the warp markers when there's several non-electronic instruments at play. I had to take the line-of-sight approach with the peaks, or I'd be there for days, marking individual beats.

It seems that the worst culprit for spoiling the sound of the track is the bpm setting. The original is about 70bpm (AFAIK) and I'm boosting it to about 84bpm, that's a 20% increase in speed. What I might try next is time-stretching the original in Sound Forge and having another go at the warp markers.

supster · Post by **supster** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:19 pm

Bunzer wrote: It seems that the worst culprit for spoiling the sound of the track is the bpm setting. The original is about 70bpm (AFAIK) and I'm boosting it to about 84bpm, that's a 20% increase in speed. What I might try next is time-stretching the original in Sound Forge and having another go at the warp markers.

well .. you're remixing a track without the original parts ... someone have you take a crack at it .. best to see if they have any original parts. you're limited in what you can do without them.

sustained sounds like pads and sustained bass sounds are the worst enemies to bpm/pitch shifts.

there are creative ways .. like slick warp marking, using grains modes ... chopping the clip and using beats mode on one section, grains on others where it works better ..

..but, sounds like this one is one where you have to work within your limitations .. if it were me i wouldnt kill myself, theres only so much you can do in a case like that

Bunzer · Post by **Bunzer** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:58 pm

It's a surprise. I can't ask for the original parts, but that would be preferrable to use.

The worst affected part seems to be the acoustic guitar, it sounds really "warbly". Slowing it to low 70's bpm sounds much better , but too slow. So I'll take the resample route for this project.

I obviously need to read-up on the different warp modes and their parameters. It's one feature of Live I actually don't find THAT intuitive.

buzzcock · Post by **buzzcock** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:26 pm

Pitch Black posted this over in the Tips & Tricks section a while back:

http://www.ableton.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17350

Thought you might find it helpful.

Also, most people find Melodyne's time-streching to be quite good, if money is no object...

rachmanoff · Post by **rachmanoff** » Mon Apr 04, 2005 8:45 pm

make sure you don't over-warp. if you're warping every 1 or 2 measures, try every 4 or even 8 measures. this will result in timing that's less rigid to the grid, and it will still contain artifacts...but it will make the artifacts more consistent and easier to tame. also, it will more accurately preserve the original timing.