Is NI buying Ableton?!

[ttilberg]

Hi Folks,

My company just bought Ableton and will be discontinuing Ableton Live 9 development.

Also we will be implementing an update to existing Live 8 users through the automatic update system that will require online verification at runtime, and every 5 minutes during.

Also we will be shutting down the authentication servers at the end of the world, December 2012.

Cheers!

[CR78]

Maybe Gibson Guitars can buy Ableton and then discontinue Live, like they did with Oberheim

Yeah, Gibson(Arturia) really F'd Tom Oberheim over.

I'm saving up(lonnnng save) for one of Tom's new 2Voice synth's; always wanted an Obie....that SOUND

I really want to support the man.

[hoffman2k]

Ableton was founded in 1999 by Gerhard Behles, Robert Henke of Monolake and Bernd Roggendorf. After Behles' work on granular synthesis features for Native Instruments' Reaktor, as well as earlier software using a Silicon Graphics workstation at the Technical University of Berlin, Live was first released as commercial software in 2001.

The plot thickens.

[pid]

...and because Bitwig IS Ableton... :roll:

Actually, its not.

I mean; Ableton Live supports rewire, Bitwig doesn't. There are quite some differences between the two.

hi shel. just a very small completely OT note here...
you have said this a few times on the forums, but i think you need to do your research better, as the ONLY good and interesting thing about bitwig (otherwise looks like a load of shite) is that they will not support rewire but use JACK instead.

jack is so so far superior to rewire in every imaginable and possible way that i can only conclude you have never used it. in fact, companies like ableton and cycling74 should really be supporting jack drivers out of the box, although jack is so great it can deal with unsupported softwares too. bidirectional audio and and midi sharing with powerful routing and all across windows, osx and linux? yes, that good, and with latency lower than the inferior rewire anyway. also works with that monstrosity reason, too.

go download and install! you'll be amazed!

[Tone Deft]

Ableton was founded in 1999 by Gerhard Behles, Robert Henke of Monolake and Bernd Roggendorf. After Behles' work on granular synthesis features for Native Instruments' Reaktor, as well as earlier software using a Silicon Graphics workstation at the Technical University of Berlin, Live was first released as commercial software in 2001.

The plot thickens.

I thought that those energies steered him towards C74 and the resulting m4L integration.

gah, what the hell is going on!?!?!

[TabSel]

...and because Bitwig IS Ableton...

Actually, its not.

I mean; Ableton Live supports rewire, Bitwig doesn't. There are quite some differences between the two.

hi shel. just a very small completely OT note here...
you have said this a few times on the forums, but i think you need to do your research better, as the ONLY good and interesting thing about bitwig (otherwise looks like a load of shite) is that they will not support rewire but use JACK instead.

jack is so so far superior to rewire in every imaginable and possible way that i can only conclude you have never used it. in fact, companies like ableton and cycling74 should really be supporting jack drivers out of the box, although jack is so great it can deal with unsupported softwares too. bidirectional audio and and midi sharing with powerful routing and all across windows, osx and linux? yes, that good, and with latency lower than the inferior rewire anyway. also works with that monstrosity reason, too.

go download and install! you'll be amazed!

But no transport/cycle sync and no sample accurate tempo.

[3dot...]

...and because Bitwig IS Ableton...

Actually, its not.

I mean; Ableton Live supports rewire, Bitwig doesn't. There are quite some differences between the two.

[botstein]

[H20nly]

^ seen that many times before... but it is so true.

[sporkles]

We are not currently in the market for any Ableton.

NI!

[pid]

hi shel. just a very small completely OT note here...
you have said this a few times on the forums, but i think you need to do your research better, as the ONLY good and interesting thing about bitwig (otherwise looks like a load of shite) is that they will not support rewire but use JACK instead.

Well, that's a matter of opinion.

I consider it a bad thing because of two reasons; first is that I'd like to have a choice on what to use. Why wouldn't a semi-professional program support set out standards? So far Rewire never really hindered me. But most of all I'm getting tired of companies and people trying to re-invent the wheel over and over again. One of the reasons we have so very few set standards is because people and companies continue to try and do things "better", thus creating a more fractured environmnent.

Which isn't a bad thing perse, but one has to wonder what could have happened if they tried to contribute to the current standards (rewire) instead of making yet another new thing.

jack is so so far superior to rewire in every imaginable and possible way that i can only conclude you have never used it. in fact, companies like ableton and cycling74 should really be supporting jack drivers out of the box, although jack is so great it can deal with unsupported softwares too.

Actually I have used it, but wasn't all that excited. It has it advantages, but also several disadvantages which IMO don't weigh up for the stuff I'm doing. But that's for a future blog post.

I'm in particular not very happy with the extra load it puts on your system. People are already trying to squeeze out everything they can, and the last thing you'd want when using multiple DAW environments is adding even more demand for resources.

Alas; what I do fully agree with is companies adding jack drivers to their software. That boils down to giving people a choice in the matter. But IMO that should go both ways; the settled crowd (Ableton, Props, NI) should keep an open mind for new developments (Jack) just like newcomers should have the will to support existing standards (such as rewire) instead of solely using 3rd party solutions (to reduce development costs or effort maybe?).

ok, first of all, apologies for the somewhat zealous posting style.
also, to come clean, i have used jack on the much more recent windows port only a handful of times, so cannot comment more fully on this as i am almost always on linux or os x. i have never had an issue with system resources hogging, and i use pretty rubbish quality hardware. the point of jack is it is a server, which other jack-aware applications can tap into. go and try multiple multimedia apps on linux - 'it just works'.

dates - jack has been a reality for as long as rewire. it is not a new development. it was just linux first. in fact the os x version came out the same day (unkown to eachother) as the less featured 'soundflower' system. anyway, it is very mature in terms of development time. absolutely no reinventing the wheel. rewire just is not the same as jack. sure, right enough, there are some infuriating things about jack's development structure, as with other open source softwares.

most importantly, jack is an open source standard. anyone can contribute to its development. rewire is a locked, closed source 'standard' that requires 3rd party developers to license it, which is dispicable for a protocol that is supposed to be about freeing software to interconnect. in fact rewire was only invented so that reason could connect with other software, because propellerheads refused to deal with plugin technology. if reason was not as successful and populist as it is, none of us would ever have heard of rewire. just imagine how powerful and amazing and user freeing jack would be today if companies like ableton and cycling74 had actually paid it more attention in the past?

i am absolutely not an unthinking sanctimonious open source evangelist. i just agree with you regards choice. a 'standard' should not be called a 'standard' unless it is open source. period. rewire is not a standard. lots of people wanted to collaborate on rewire; propellerheads would not let them.

remember being able to take a jack plug and plug it between any piece of hardware you rightfully own? that is what software should be like. i as a user should be completely in control of what i own.

i appreciate your acknowledgement that software companies should offer choice. you are right.

best.

[ttilberg]

Pid, you remind me of me about 4 years ago.

Being a Linux guy myself, I've used JACK on all three major platforms. It was sweet in Linux, because -- well, it's all you have. It does what it does very well, I won't disagree.

However, I loaded Jack onto my Windows machine recently, and it was a complete nightmare, ending with me giving up and saying "eff this." This is coming from someone who is quite savvy with this type of stuff (constantly tweaking linux boxes for sadistic enjoyment)

Also, I've gotta point this out, because people value time differently:

especially of note is the hardware recognition -- I would guess that most people here use professional D/A converters, that directly support ASIO, not just ASIO4ALL.

From the Windows Start menu, locate the Jack folder and right click on Jack Portaudio icon, then select 'Send to Desktop' (this will place a shortcut on your desktop)
Now go to your desktop and right click on the Jack PortAudio shortcut, and then select 'Properties' (use right click to open 'Properties')
Add the following information to the 'Target' property: "C:\Program Files\Jack\jackd.exe" -R -S -d portaudio -d "ASIO::ASIO4ALL v2" [This configures Jack to use the ASIO4ALL v2 driver, if you have another ASIO device then configure the 'Target' property with that device name. For a list of all the audio devices on your system that Jack can connect to, open a Command Prompt, change directory to the Jack folder (i.e. cd "c:\Program Files (x86)\Jack\") then run this command: jackd -d portaudio -l (that's an 'ell' for List, not a 'one') , this will present you with the list of supported devices.]
Click on OK.
Again, from the Windows Start menu, locate the Jack folder and right click on the Jack Control icon, then select 'Send to Desktop' (placing a Jack Control shortcut on your desktop)
You will now have the Jack PortAudio icon (which starts the Jack Audio Connection Kit's audio server), and the Jack Control icon (which allows you to configure the connections between ASIO programs and your hardware). The sequence of usage is to start with the Jack PortAudio icon, allow the audio server to start, and then start Jack Control.

Connecting Audio Applications
Start Jack PortAudio
With the Jack Audio Server started, the JackRouter ASIO driver will be available for your ASIO supported applications.
Within your audio application, select JackRouter as the audio device.
Now start Jack Control
Click on the Connect button
In the Audio tab window, on the left hand side you will see the Readable Clients (audio inputs to your computer) and Application Output ports (audio being routed into the Jack Audio Server via the JackRouter ASIO driver), and on the right hand side you will see the Writable Clients (audio outputs from your computer, i.e. your speaker ports) and Application Input ports (the ASIO audio-in ports from your applications configured with the JackRouter ASIO driver)
To route the sound from your application to your speakers, click on the audio producing port (Readable) on the left hand side, then click on the audio output port (Writable i.e. system), and then click on the Connect button.
Search through bug reports because you cannot produce audio on your 64 bit system.

Open your two compatable ReWire Apps
Wire your connections
Profit

I won't deny that it's powerful once it's set up, and if you are willing to go through the trouble of doing so -- but I don't think it's that easy to just simply say "zomg rewire sucks!"

It depends heavily on:
A) Your willingness and appreciation for being experimental with technology
B) Your hardware and applications

Obviously, there isn't a way to ReWire Live audio from Live into Reason's effects racks -- which is where Jack might come in -- but for many supported purposes, ReWire is pretty dope.

[H20nly]

i like jack on my burger. sometimes i like swiss, but with mushrooms then too.

[3dot...]

We are not currently in the market for any Ableton.

NI!

NIIIII !

[massenmedium]

If they are I imagine they'll be waiting for the 30% discount before L9 is announced.

NI!