mixing tip#1

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
bkwsk
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Re: mixing tip#1

Post by bkwsk » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:27 pm

If you just keep changing stuff randomly it's gonna end up not sounding better at all.

doom_Oo7
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Re: mixing tip#1

Post by doom_Oo7 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:30 pm

mixing tip n°1337 : ¯\(°_o)/¯ How do mix drums????
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doom_Oo7
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Re: mixing tip#1

Post by doom_Oo7 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:31 pm

and for the real debate, man, what the hell with cutting under 60hz ? what I fucking like with music it's when the subbass make my doors fly off their handles
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kent_sandvik
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Re: mixing tip#1

Post by kent_sandvik » Tue Oct 16, 2012 6:51 pm

Mixing tip #24013

Get a set of decent monitors and do acoustic treatment of your listening environment so you really know what happens below 60Hz.

ian_halsall
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Re: mixing tip#1

Post by ian_halsall » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:31 pm

I like sub-zero frequencies - negative bass.

Imagine

simmerdown
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Re: mixing tip#1

Post by simmerdown » Tue Oct 16, 2012 10:40 pm

yeh, les than 60 is the part that makes yer nuts wiggle, can't lose that

Sibanger
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Re: mixing tip#1

Post by Sibanger » Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:26 am

3dot... wrote:no ...actually...
you're left with a pulsating 60Hz tone... I think
I call it funkdot...

I keep reading this as fuckdot...

Gotta get my eyes tested.

doom_Oo7
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Re: mixing tip#1

Post by doom_Oo7 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:33 am

ian_halsall wrote:I like sub-zero frequencies - negative bass.

Imagine

My band goes so deep that we tune ourselves in terms of periods rather than frequencies
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simmerdown
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Re: mixing tip#1

Post by simmerdown » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:30 pm

'negative' bass...infrasound...ask an elephant or a whale about it

ttilberg
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Re: mixing tip#1

Post by ttilberg » Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:35 pm

doom_Oo7 wrote:and for the real debate, man, what the hell with cutting under 60hz ? what I fucking like with music it's when the subbass make my doors fly off their handles
Hi Doom, it's because the sonic energy in the lower side of the spectrum is much more powerful, and as such, much more easy to overdo. Often times even instruments that you don't expect to be interfering with the bass have sonic energy in the low end. This is why people recommend to high pass every channel, so that you get as clean a sound as possible, especially after compression in the low end.

When people talk about putting a high pass filter on even your bass channels, it doesn't necessarily stop all sound below that frequency, it just turns it down a little bit -- there's a slope. If you take a look at a spectrum, you'll often see the 30-60 hz range peaking heavily -- when you add the HP filter, it's definitely still there, and maybe even still prevalent.

From what I understand, there are two major side effects to having over powering sub:
1) If you are using a compressor, the compressor overreacts to sound you can't even hear. It sees "OMG THIS IS CRAY CRAY!" and starts lowering the levels -- but it's turning it down because of frequencies you can't even hear (or in some cases, a real speaker can't even reproduce, thus you can't even feel it)!

2) Since your speakers actually need to physically vibrate to recreate this sound, and low frequencies cause your speaker to vibrate slowly, it is very easy to muddy this important low section when several different parts are requesting your cone to bump in opposite directions.

If you want your nuts to wiggle, you've gotta be very careful with who joins the >60 hz party.

Tarekith, as always, brings up an excellent point: If you don't have a proper listening environment, it's impossible to know what's really going on down there. It usually sounds dope on the system you are producing on, because you are carving that sound for that system. But when you move it to another listening environment, like the club, or even your car (my typical failing point) your song is screwed.


This is just how I understand it -- obviously there are many folks here who have much more knowledge and experience in this -- if anything I said is incorrect, please let me know so I can edit this to be accurate, and correct my brainstrings.
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3dot...
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Re: mixing tip#1

Post by 3dot... » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:07 pm

ttilberg wrote:
doom_Oo7 wrote:and for the real debate, man, what the hell with cutting under 60hz ? what I fucking like with music it's when the subbass make my doors fly off their handles
Hi Doom, it's because the sonic energy in the lower side of the spectrum is much more powerful, and as such, much more easy to overdo. Often times even instruments that you don't expect to be interfering with the bass have sonic energy in the low end. This is why people recommend to high pass every channel, so that you get as clean a sound as possible, especially after compression in the low end.

When people talk about putting a high pass filter on even your bass channels, it doesn't necessarily stop all sound below that frequency, it just turns it down a little bit -- there's a slope. If you take a look at a spectrum, you'll often see the 30-60 hz range peaking heavily -- when you add the HP filter, it's definitely still there, and maybe even still prevalent.

From what I understand, there are two major side effects to having over powering sub:
1) If you are using a compressor, the compressor overreacts to sound you can't even hear. It sees "OMG THIS IS CRAY CRAY!" and starts lowering the levels -- but it's turning it down because of frequencies you can't even hear (or in some cases, a real speaker can't even reproduce, thus you can't even feel it)!

2) Since your speakers actually need to physically vibrate to recreate this sound, and low frequencies cause your speaker to vibrate slowly, it is very easy to muddy this important low section when several different parts are requesting your cone to bump in opposite directions.

If you want your nuts to wiggle, you've gotta be very careful with who joins the >60 hz party.

Tarekith, as always, brings up an excellent point: If you don't have a proper listening environment, it's impossible to know what's really going on down there. It usually sounds dope on the system you are producing on, because you are carving that sound for that system. But when you move it to another listening environment, like the club, or even your car (my typical failing point) your song is screwed.


This is just how I understand it -- obviously there are many folks here who have much more knowledge and experience in this -- if anything I said is incorrect, please let me know so I can edit this to be accurate, and correct my brainstrings.
excellent... you get an A+ in my book man...

people read this carefully... as it explain tip#1.. and touches other stuff that's coming up on the program....

like... the listening environment when mixing....
the ideal is to mix-in the bass in a calibrated environment...

the less than ideal and more tedious way..
is to listen to a pre-mix on many different systems and adjust the bass in the mix offline afterwards...
and adjust the bass so it will sound half-decent on ALL of them....
don't stop testing on different systems and adjusting...until you're satisfied.
when making any drastic changes.. you'll need to do it again... and again...

point is.. .
if your room isn't properly treated.. or the speakers aren't calibrated so they tell the truth...
you're mixing "in a lie"... and so the final mix.. which you did so much detail on the bass is crap in other rooms/systems.
especially in the Low range as it has the most potential to muddy things up... cause phasing...
and mess with your overall loudness..

mixing the bass in with the headphones (at low volumes) will help set the overall bass/mid/treble balance...
but is bad for hearing detail... and (in-air) phasing issues...
which can only be heard when the whole system is playing (in a properly treated room)

3rd and easiest way is to give it to a mixing artist which you like....
this guy should already be set-up with a mixing environment and tools...
sit in for the sessions..(to learn)
this usually involves paying some $... (but not always)
Last edited by 3dot... on Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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3dot...
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Re: mixing tip#1

Post by 3dot... » Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:11 pm

btw ... in some genres... (especially in the 80's early 90's)
sub-bass is almost non-existent (without boosting...)
check it (HD)...
http://youtu.be/0qB54PNb4hA
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simmerdown
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Re: mixing tip#1

Post by simmerdown » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:05 pm

so, cut everything below 60hz, except not the bass track, if your going for that stomach rumble? is that what ch'all meant?

3dot...
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Re: mixing tip#1

Post by 3dot... » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:18 pm

you can still get the bass... without mixing in the sub-bass...
the comprehensible bass tones sit above the 60Hz slope line anyways...
and the bass frequencies can mask things.. the small details are in the higher registers...
Dial the bass in later. after you took care of all the details...
it'll also make your ears fresher for the long haul that is a mixing process...
once done.. you'll know exactly how much rumble you want down under..
we're only talking about the mixing process. not the composing process...
you can still have your ball shaking fun with the bass..

anyways.. there are no rules really..
this is only experience and preference...
and we haven't yet touched the artistic part of a mix...
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3dot...
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Re: mixing tip#1

Post by 3dot... » Wed Oct 17, 2012 6:30 pm

#5
think...

I'll elaborate
by now... your levels and stereo image are set to a good position.
your tracks are routed to buses... (for example drums...bass.. harmony low...harmony high...leads... chorus etc etc etc)
you also know the track by heart already... all the parts etc. ...and have some ideas as to where it's going to go...
but...
your ears are tired...if you listen to the track again you risk either getting an ear fracture...
or getting your ears half-deaf so that they start lying to you.. you've been pounding them so hard.
and you make mistakes.. because your ears are fatigued...

take a LONG break... write down ANYTHING that comes to mind about what you'd want this track to sound like (including the sub bass)
if there are any timing problems.. phase problems.. if you need anything re recoreded or you think something could be overdubbed better...
now is the time to write it all down...

#6
do everything on the list...
and mix it again... (levels/pan/fx)...to a good position...
no automation yet...
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