LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
hmj
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat May 14, 2011 10:00 pm

Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by hmj » Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:57 am

"Why is the feature I wished for not included in Live 9?

We decided to focus on some of the most often wished features in Live 9, such as Session Automation recording, Automation curves, 64-bit support and a better MIDI editor. Some other features couldn't be implemented at this point, but rest assured, we keep track of them in our internal wishlist."

I'm impressed with Live 9, a company can only do so much with the resources available to them but like you this concerns me.

The truth of the matter is that all over these forums whenever you start talking PDC, Hardware Insert Delay Compensation, Eucon, Sample Accurate Waveforms, Sound Quality or anything that's not a thrill people start talking about how Ableton isn't made for that. I understand that point of view and I get the Ableton market but this is backbone DAW stuff that just gets ignored time after time.

I use to hate the Avid business model of PT LE and PT HD but now I understand that too. Some features really aren't important for some people and that is 100% fine. I vote for an Ableton 9 HD that cost like $2,000 with a DSP card and all the pro features desired by that demo.

merges
Posts: 271
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Location: vancouver

Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by merges » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:06 am

So far we be jumping to conclusions about this. We're obviously going to have to wait to find out from beta testers or Ableton.

I think there are a lot of amazing-looking changes under the hood and in the workflow and UI, so let's hope this got some attention along with those. :) Excited for 9.

petit nuage
Posts: 430
Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 12:31 pm

Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by petit nuage » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:45 am

the new live 9 seems very good but as the timing's tightness is just fondamental in music, and for the sound quality, i really hope they have improved it for the new version...
otherwise, even if im a loyal customer/user and i loove live more than another soft, i should take a look to the others competitors , like bitwig, reaper or studio one.

i was searching about "ableton pdc" on the net when i ve read this interesting thread in gearslutz about the live's sound quality, where some people evocate as possible causes : http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-co ... ity-3.html

sample rate conversion, pan laws and PDC ...but another person evocate that the culprit maybe the vst which dont report correctly its latency to the host ...soo...

where is the truth ?
ableton some informations please !

RD444
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:59 pm

Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by RD444 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:15 am

PDC

- Play some music
- jam some automation ........WOW its so easy
- add a few plugs
- oh no everything is all out of time a rubbish

PDC take 2

- Play some music
- add a few plugs with tempo sync (like a filter with LFO)........WOW its so easy
- add another plug...
- oh no everything is all out of time a rubbish


Ableton Support:

".....................duh which way did he go"
Image

Easy to implemnt
Ableton CANNOT BE BOTHERED

======

Live "a Sequencer that cant play in time with itself"

=============

I like live a lot ,but I would have avoided it if had known about the PDC BS

==========

So Live 9 PDC yes/no


this is in the PDF manual but not in the paper manual
my reward for buying the box of live 8 was an incomplete manual
"hide the PDC stuff"
16.5 Device Delay Compensation
Live automatically compensates for delays caused by Live and plug-in instruments and
effects, including those on the return tracks. These delays can arise from the time taken by
devices to process an input signal and output a result. The compensation algorithm keeps
Live’s tracks in sync while minimizing delay between the player’s actions and the audible
result.

CHAPTER 16. WORKING WITH INSTRUMENTS AND EFFECTS 229
Note: there are a few situations in which Live cannot compensate for plug-in delay:
• Automation is not delay compensated. As a result, when using automation on tracks
that contain devices that cause delays, the automation may sound early.

• Tempo-synced effects and other devices that get timing information from Live’s internal
clock may sound out of sync if they are placed in a device chain after devices which
cause delay.
Device delay compensation is on by default and does not normally have to be adjusted
in any way. However, Live Sets that were created with Live 4 or earlier will open without
device delay compensation. To manually turn latency compensation on (or off), use the
Delay Compensation option in the Options menu.
Unusually high individual track delays or reported latencies from plug-ins may cause noticeable
sluggishness in the software. If you are having latency-related difculties while
recording and playing back instruments, you may want to try turning off device delay compensation,
however this is not normally recommended. You may also nd that adjusting the
individual track delays is useful in these cases, but please note that the Track Delay controls
are unavailable when device delay compensation is deactivated.
Note that device delay compensation can, depending on the number of tracks and devices
in use, increase the CPU load.
"Plugin Delay compensation -PDC WARNING - Ableton Live 9 does not sequence all information correctly in time"
The bigger the project the more out of time it will be.

xzusa8ky
Posts: 1064
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Location: Vienna

Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by xzusa8ky » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:37 am

Dream On!
Bitwig/1.0.5 - Ableton/Live 8 - Apple/MacPro-2.8Ghz-8Core-RAID - Samsung/SM-P2770H 27" - Yamaha/HS80M/HS10W - Behringer/BCR/BCF - Allen & Heath/Xone:3D - Sennheiser/HD25-13 - Native Instruments/Komplete9/Traktor Pro

RD444
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:59 pm

Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by RD444 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:52 am

Hitler learns about Bitwig Studio

http://youtu.be/0phA3t9qHNw
"Plugin Delay compensation -PDC WARNING - Ableton Live 9 does not sequence all information correctly in time"
The bigger the project the more out of time it will be.

jtdj
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Contact:

Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by jtdj » Tue Oct 30, 2012 11:57 am

is there any update on this?

Surreal
Posts: 560
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by Surreal » Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:26 pm

RD444 wrote:
Easy to implemnt
Ableton CANNOT BE BOTHERED
The complaint about PDC is valid, for the most part, but this part is really rubbish. 'Easy'? If you aren't a developer, it is 'easy' for you to assess the difficulty because you have no frame of reference. if you are a developer, why don't you show them how easy it is with your own DAW?

This criticism bothers me because software devs are in the awkward position of knowing that no one wants to know the details but everyone thinks that they do. I can easily see how PDC is a tricky feature to implement. It is vital to the app, so I agree that it needs to be addressed, but lets not belittle the task. It is a non trivial problem in a web of non trivial problems.

Coupe70
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by Coupe70 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:02 pm

edit:

(forget it)
Phongemeinschaft (Live-ElectroJazz / NuJazz)
Homepage - youtube - Like! :-)
Live 9 (32Bit), HP DV7, i5 2,53GHz, 8 GB RAM, Win7 (64Bit)

ze2be
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Location: Mos Eisley

Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by ze2be » Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:33 pm

Surreal wrote:
RD444 wrote:
Easy to implemnt
Ableton CANNOT BE BOTHERED
The complaint about PDC is valid, for the most part, but this part is really rubbish. 'Easy'? If you aren't a developer, it is 'easy' for you to assess the difficulty because you have no frame of reference. if you are a developer, why don't you show them how easy it is with your own DAW?

This criticism bothers me because software devs are in the awkward position of knowing that no one wants to know the details but everyone thinks that they do. I can easily see how PDC is a tricky feature to implement. It is vital to the app, so I agree that it needs to be addressed, but lets not belittle the task. It is a non trivial problem in a web of non trivial problems.
Dont under estimate the community. Ive seen fans (developers) help out developers on Kickstarter. It was rather deep code stuf, and very few of the other fans understood it, but it helped the developer. (Game programers from inXile, previously Interplay. Big boys. Amongst top 5 in the 90ties) Ableton like the other big DAWs probably prefer keeping all their cards to themself. I understand that, the competition is fierce. But this new open dialog with the community that has started on Kickstarter is really opening some creative eyes and minds at the moment.

If they would consider using the community like that, and perhaps limit it to bits and pieces and not the whole code, im sure theres some helpful talents roaming arround here. Just looking arround me, 2 of my best budies are programers, one is a Live fan.
? ? ? ? ?

CooCooCaCha
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2012 4:24 pm

Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by CooCooCaCha » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:11 pm

Who cares how difficult this is? Other DAW's do this fine and so should live.

This shouldn't even be an issue...

RD444
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:59 pm

Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by RD444 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:14 pm

Surreal wrote:
RD444 wrote:
Easy to implemnt
Ableton CANNOT BE BOTHERED
The complaint about PDC is valid, for the most part, but this part is really rubbish. 'Easy'? If you aren't a developer, it is 'easy' for you to assess the difficulty because you have no frame of reference. if you are a developer, why don't you show them how easy it is with your own DAW?

This criticism bothers me because software devs are in the awkward position of knowing that no one wants to know the details but everyone thinks that they do. I can easily see how PDC is a tricky feature to implement. It is vital to the app, so I agree that it needs to be addressed, but lets not belittle the task. It is a non trivial problem in a web of non trivial problems.
  • Every other sequencer does it since 1990
  • If a space rocket blows up in the sky do i need to be a NASA scientist to suggest something is wrong. (if it so easy you make a space rocket - being your argument)
  • i make music not computer programs
  • Should a sequencer play stuff in time with itself
  • Ableton live are lazy people that cannot be bothered with stuff being professional
  • by professional i mean making a sequencer(like all the others) that plays in time.
  • abletons not your mate
"Plugin Delay compensation -PDC WARNING - Ableton Live 9 does not sequence all information correctly in time"
The bigger the project the more out of time it will be.

garyboozy
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Contact:

Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by garyboozy » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:17 pm

RD444 wrote:
  • Every other sequencer does it since 1990
:lol: no need to read any further

H20nly
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by H20nly » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:21 pm

i hate it when the auto-update feature on my paper manual fails. :x

robble robble robble!!!

RD444
Posts: 265
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 3:59 pm

Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by RD444 » Tue Oct 30, 2012 4:39 pm

H20nly wrote:i hate it when the auto-update feature on my paper manual fails. :x

robble robble robble!!!
Theres a difference between update the manual. ..and ...actually mentioning a really unprofessional pdc issue..thats always been there...

Didn't the beta testers say "when I add loads of plugs the automation goes out of time"
"Plugin Delay compensation -PDC WARNING - Ableton Live 9 does not sequence all information correctly in time"
The bigger the project the more out of time it will be.

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