loads of - n. - technical term meaning more variables than i care to count. sentiment often followed by an asserted shift in feigned responsibility.RD444 wrote:Theres a difference between update the manual. ..and ...actually mentioning a really unprofessional pdc issue..thats always been there...H20nly wrote:i hate it when the auto-update feature on my paper manual fails.
robble robble robble!!!
Didn't the beta testers say "when I add loads of plugs the automation goes out of time"
LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
Ok.RD444 wrote:
- i make music not computer programs
RD444 wrote: [*]Should a sequencer play stuff in time with itself
Again, I think that this IS a valid complaint.
RD444 wrote: [*]Ableton live are lazy people that cannot be bothered with stuff being professional
'Lazy' is the sentiment that I take issue with. It assumes many things. Two big assumptions are that they are simply not working on it and that it is a trivial fix.
RD444 wrote: [*]by professional i mean making a sequencer(like all the others) that plays in time.
Again, complain away. That is a reasonable complaint.
Sure, but they are people--Human beings--and I am a human being in a position to empathize. Deciding how to spend your time--in any endeavor, but software especially--is a frustrating fight. unless you, somehow, have enough time to solve every problem, you never win. Maybe you don't lose, but there will always be something left to do. that is the challenge of solving non trivial problems.RD444 wrote: [*]abletons not your mate [/list]
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
Live has got screwy timing.
It's pretty simple.
If I play something from Itunes alongside Ableton they drift.
I have posted about this on the forums before.
It seems to render out ok,
But there is something funny going on with the timing in live.
I reckon it's a fairly deep thing as they have known about this for ages....
Possibly related to the PDC issues?
It's pretty simple.
If I play something from Itunes alongside Ableton they drift.
I have posted about this on the forums before.
It seems to render out ok,
But there is something funny going on with the timing in live.
I reckon it's a fairly deep thing as they have known about this for ages....
Possibly related to the PDC issues?
I slipped into a daze, whilst I was there I heard the most startling music, it was at once familiar and alien, reassuring and unsettling.
https://soundcloud.com/fearoftherave
https://soundcloud.com/fearoftherave
Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
This is not a solid test, if you are even 0.01 ms off for starting the tracks together, the gap (0.01ms) will start to grow exponentially through time and eventually it'll be large enough for you to hear.tw1nstates wrote:
If I play something from Itunes alongside Ableton they drift.
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
That's only if the tracks are different tempo's. If you, for example, played the same exact song they would just be offset from each other.kanuck wrote:This is not a solid test, if you are even 0.01 ms off for starting the tracks together, the gap (0.01ms) will start to grow exponentially through time and eventually it'll be large enough for you to hear.tw1nstates wrote:
If I play something from Itunes alongside Ableton they drift.
Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
No. If you play 2 identical Live sets from 2 identical laptops with identical soundcards and setup, they will drift out of beat from each other every 5 to 10 minutes. This happens everytime we play live. So we usually just nudge like a DJ, when the timing starts to get sloppy. We figured it was at least better to nudge manualy, then using midi sync. We gave up on midi sync years ago. At least with this method we are able to manualy corect the timing during the set.CooCooCaCha wrote:That's only if the tracks are different tempo's. If you, for example, played the same exact song they would just be offset from each other.
Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
you have to digitally sync the two soundcards (wordclock for example)ze2be wrote:No. If you play 2 identical Live sets from 2 identical laptops with identical soundcards and setup, they will drift out of beat from each other every 5 to 10 minutes. This happens everytime we play live. So we usually just nudge like a DJ, when the timing starts to get sloppy. We figured it was at least better to nudge manualy, then using midi sync. We gave up on midi sync years ago. At least with this method we are able to manualy corect the timing during the set.CooCooCaCha wrote:That's only if the tracks are different tempo's. If you, for example, played the same exact song they would just be offset from each other.
but this really has nothing to do at all with pdc issues within live.
live is perfectly digital synced to the soundcard used. pdc is something different.
Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
Yes, I know that. I was just responding to what he said, and just wanted to confirm that it does actually drift under these circomstances.TabSel wrote:you have to digitally sync the two soundcards (wordclock for example)ze2be wrote:No. If you play 2 identical Live sets from 2 identical laptops with identical soundcards and setup, they will drift out of beat from each other every 5 to 10 minutes. This happens everytime we play live. So we usually just nudge like a DJ, when the timing starts to get sloppy. We figured it was at least better to nudge manualy, then using midi sync. We gave up on midi sync years ago. At least with this method we are able to manualy corect the timing during the set.CooCooCaCha wrote:That's only if the tracks are different tempo's. If you, for example, played the same exact song they would just be offset from each other.
but this really has nothing to do at all with pdc issues within live.
live is perfectly digital synced to the soundcard used. pdc is something different.
When you say digital sync, do you mean normal midi sync over midi cable, or something else? Please excuse me I havent been doing midi sync for years. But I read it hasnt changed much. Oh we did actually try again I think when 8 was relleased, and we still could not get a stable sync over midi.
Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
Google wordclock
Has nothing to do with MIDI
Has nothing to do with MIDI
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
Using the same track, bounced out of live, it drifts.
The timing is funny in live.
Simple.
120 bpm is 120 bpm is 120 bpm.
Not with live
It's annoying as hell.
So, my guess is that the core of the program has got something screwy going on with the timing.
The Pdc issues are also timing based.
Don't know why they can't get it right, but it's definitely an issue.
But of course humming to midi is more important *sheesh*
The timing is funny in live.
Simple.
120 bpm is 120 bpm is 120 bpm.
Not with live
It's annoying as hell.
So, my guess is that the core of the program has got something screwy going on with the timing.
The Pdc issues are also timing based.
Don't know why they can't get it right, but it's definitely an issue.
But of course humming to midi is more important *sheesh*
I slipped into a daze, whilst I was there I heard the most startling music, it was at once familiar and alien, reassuring and unsettling.
https://soundcloud.com/fearoftherave
https://soundcloud.com/fearoftherave
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- Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:00 pm
Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
Using the same track, bounced out of live, it drifts.
The timing is funny in live.
Simple.
120 bpm is 120 bpm is 120 bpm.
Not with live
It's annoying as hell.
So, my guess is that the core of the program has got something screwy going on with the timing.
The Pdc issues are also timing based.
Don't know why they can't get it right, but it's definitely an issue.
But of course humming to midi is more important *sheesh*
The timing is funny in live.
Simple.
120 bpm is 120 bpm is 120 bpm.
Not with live
It's annoying as hell.
So, my guess is that the core of the program has got something screwy going on with the timing.
The Pdc issues are also timing based.
Don't know why they can't get it right, but it's definitely an issue.
But of course humming to midi is more important *sheesh*
I slipped into a daze, whilst I was there I heard the most startling music, it was at once familiar and alien, reassuring and unsettling.
https://soundcloud.com/fearoftherave
https://soundcloud.com/fearoftherave
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
This pisses me off to no end. They spend the time making three different algorithms for audio to midi and yet they can't fix these PDC issues. I've lost a lot of faith in Ableton over this issue.tw1nstates wrote: But of course humming to midi is more important *sheesh*
Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
My upgrade decision will mostly be based upon whether this PDC issue has been addressed or not, specifically with regard to third party plugins. The new features are cool; yet for me, timing sync with tempo based effects takes priority.
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
THIS IS ABOUT LIVE 8:
I loaded a kickdrum into simpler with the following effects chain:
Simpler > Pro-Q > Pro-C > VolumeShaper
As you can see the kick is delayed in VolumeShaper because Live is not compensating for the delay caused by Pro-Q and Pro-C and the kickdrum will shift back and forth in VolumeShaper if I add or remove plugins in the fx chain.
EDIT: I took down the picture and edited my response. Ableton have stated that some features are not yet complete, and although they haven't mentioned PDC I don't want to be the guy spreading information that might change in the coming months. I have left details however, in case people want to learn about the problem people are talking about.
EDIT 2: I'd also like to add that Ableton didn't ask me to change this post. I did it on my own because I was previously misinformed about the Beta and my priority is to beta test right now
I loaded a kickdrum into simpler with the following effects chain:
Simpler > Pro-Q > Pro-C > VolumeShaper
As you can see the kick is delayed in VolumeShaper because Live is not compensating for the delay caused by Pro-Q and Pro-C and the kickdrum will shift back and forth in VolumeShaper if I add or remove plugins in the fx chain.
EDIT: I took down the picture and edited my response. Ableton have stated that some features are not yet complete, and although they haven't mentioned PDC I don't want to be the guy spreading information that might change in the coming months. I have left details however, in case people want to learn about the problem people are talking about.
EDIT 2: I'd also like to add that Ableton didn't ask me to change this post. I did it on my own because I was previously misinformed about the Beta and my priority is to beta test right now
Last edited by CooCooCaCha on Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
So you're a beta tester?
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i7-3770K 3.5GHz
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Windows 8
Live 9
i7-3770K 3.5GHz
16GB RAM
256GB SSD, 1TB 7200HD
Windows 8
Live 9