LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
H20nly
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by H20nly » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:12 am

@ sdfak1234 - i asked you a straight question about upgrading to Cubase 7, instead of answering that straightforward question you wrote a 3 or 4 posts with 3 or 400 words worth of dissertation filled with your opinions on what i may or may not have been thinking and on how fucked up everyone ELSE is... maybe you should quit music altogether and switch to a career in mind reading since you seem to think you have a knack for it.

Tarot cards, the bones, and the shaking of the chicken will not be affected by latency compensation issues that may or may not be being addressed by Ableton.

irony - incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result.
you ripped my ass for no real reason in that 2009 thread... and you're ripping my ass for no particular reason in this thread. hell, i even helped you get the free Cubase upgrade info.

me, i'm going to upgrade to Cubase 7 right away, because i don't give a shit if features are broken upon release... as long as it opens my old SX 3 .cpr files i made in Windows XP on my iMac.
if worse comes to worse, i can always use Live. 8)

sdfak1234
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by sdfak1234 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:23 am

H20, you don't need to mind read to grasp what you were saying, now we've heard 3 explanations... sure ok, whatever, you were asking an innocent question quoting a post I made 3 years ago and whilst selecting a certain part of it and making that bold... super innocent question, and I love your trolling response. So yeah, anyway, Cubase 7, sure I'll try it out, looks good, I'm working on a new work flow anyway, so if I'm adapting I may as well start with 7, if it's got show-stopping problems I'll downgrade, or do something else altogether.

It's funny you talk about mind reading, because I've read quite a bit of that from you, but unlike you, I couldn't be bothered going through and cutting out some quotes because I don't need to prove that point.

I've made it quite clear what my intention here is, and there was never intention of shaking chickens to issues addressed by Ableton. To be clear, I am simply here to argue the case for automation on PDC. I'm also arguing against anything I feel to be wrong.

sdfak1234
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by sdfak1234 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:33 am

H20nly wrote: irony - incongruity between the actual result of a sequence of events and the normal or expected result.
you ripped my ass for no real reason in that 2009 thread... and you're ripping my ass for no particular reason in this thread. hell, i even helped you get the free Cubase upgrade info.
No incongruity.

Look I didn't intend to rip your ass, I'm not sure how I even did that, but I'll review... I just get really offended when people make cliche suggestions to me, I find these responses super irritating because I've read them a hundred times over, and they still don't apply to me, they're not helpful...I could tally how many times these come up just in this thread, now I'm sorry if I somehow offended you or whatever, all I can say is that my frustration was never intended to be targeted at you. It just spills over into anything that gets in the way and maybe that's my bad... BUT I'm just trying to make sharp arguments, I'm not trying to make personal attacks unless there is nothing left to salvage.

I have said repeatedly on this thread that I believe noise and argument WILL get this update, I'm only going to be on here until my new shit arrives in a few days anyway... but I figured I could contribute to the voice against Ableton... and I think I've been helpful to people about this issue, it's not all angry shit and the anger when it's there is seldom targeted at anyone but Ableton... but what I've come to realize that users feel that like a personal attack against them, just goes to show you how emotionally invested people are in their stuff...
Last edited by sdfak1234 on Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

sdfak1234
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by sdfak1234 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:36 am

few users don't seem to understand another basic concept, which baffles me, that it's possible to switch to Cubase and still be pissed at Ableton, you can make music in Cubase and still demand an update to Live. You can do both at the same time. Believe it or not.

H20nly
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by H20nly » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:37 am

why are you so convinced that i actually went looking for info about you?

and even IF i did... what difference does that make? you wrote it right?

you were pissed about Live 8 after having upgraded from Live 7... you are currently anticipating Live 9 while at the same time being pissed about it not having a feature that no one knows FOR SURE that it will not ever have. don't get shitty with me for noticing a pattern... shit, in that same thread you dogged Steinberg and Cubase. maybe, if you actually let your blood stop boiling and think about why i might ask something like that... you could see the same pattern.
LoopStationZebra wrote:it's like a hipster commie pinko manifesto. Rambling. Angry. Nearly divorced from all reality; yet strangely compelling with a ring of truth.

sdfak1234
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by sdfak1234 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:37 am

simmerdown wrote:
leisuremuffin wrote: Here's the thing, i'm an asshole. I know that. You are also an asshole, but you don't know it.
Quote of the Day right there, hah
Unoriginal quote though.

sdfak1234
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by sdfak1234 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:50 am

H20nly wrote:why are you so convinced that i actually went looking for info about you?

and even IF i did... what difference does that make? you wrote it right?

you were pissed about Live 8 after having upgraded from Live 7... you are currently anticipating Live 9 while at the same time being pissed about it not having a feature that no one knows FOR SURE that it will not ever have. don't get shitty with me for noticing a pattern... shit, in that same thread you dogged Steinberg and Cubase. maybe, if you actually let your blood stop boiling and think about why i might ask something like that... you could see the same pattern.
I did write it, and still applies, no incongruity, that's why I didn't understand you referencing it and calling it ironic... now maybe I understand what you're getting at better, but I think I'm still relatively innocent though... because I do have a rational for this. 8 to me was a sudden drop in quality, Ableton pretty much confirmed they released it too early. Now I get your point that in music software history the same shit happens over and over again, and the point you're making is that you're a fool if you're an early adopter... I kinda agree but I feel there is a limit to this concept, I understand bugs because I'm a software developer, and there are obvious things that come up, the pattern is that there is always problems, but some are massive, there is also always threads like this and people like me and I'd like to think that's what makes things move along... I feel also there are absolute limits to what is acceptable, this particular problem is interesting because it is under the radar in many ways. It has to be handled slightly differently.

In regards Steinberg, they had a bad period, I stopped using it with Cubase 4 after they introduced really bizarre problems that continued into 5, stupid shit like stopping transport when you audition a sample.. but they've had their maturity period I think, we'll see with 7. I hope it will also be the same with Live, I'll skip it for a few versions, and revisit but I've got a feeling they are going in the wrong direction completely. Remember the time frame of these posts, Cubase was shit, Live was great, Live got shit, Cubase maybe is great... yeah doubtful, but actually I need to say also, this anger is actually boiling up over this whole decade, it's OK to be angry about it I think, I know we have limited control over the matter... but we do have some control, it's threads like this that influence things, sure too late, but still.
Last edited by sdfak1234 on Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

sdfak1234
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by sdfak1234 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:55 am

H20nly wrote:why are you so convinced that i actually went looking for info about you?

and even IF i did... what difference does that make? you wrote it right?
.
cuz the thread is 3 years old? I don't mind to be honest, it makes hardly any difference... in fact when you look at the whole story in context I think it really justifies my posts... it's kind of a litany of problems over time, I know you maybe see this a pattern of bitching, it is, but I feel for the right reasons and if you've got a bunch of things to bitch about, you're going to notice a pattern... a pattern of Ableton problems IMO

Akshara
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by Akshara » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:32 am

Ah... Mr. Sunshine and Rainbows strikes again.
H20nly wrote:don't get shitty with me for noticing a pattern...
You mean like stirring the pot? You knew full well before posting how it would wind him up again.

Mildly curious how quickly you'll become the kettle and get shitty with me for noticing a pattern.

sdfak1234... Just let it go, if you can. While I haven't always appreciated your tone, I have appreciated your input and persistence with shining a light on the PDC issue. Maybe one day Ableton will address it; though if so, it appears that it may be some time away. You made the right decision the other day, with moving forward in a new direction; one which I, at least, understand wasn't easy. Wishing you success with this new chapter.

H20nly
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by H20nly » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:56 am

sdfak1234 wrote:
H20nly wrote:why are you so convinced that i actually went looking for info about you?

and even IF i did... what difference does that make? you wrote it right?
.
cuz the thread is 3 years old? I don't mind to be honest, it makes hardly any difference... in fact when you look at the whole story in context I think it really justifies my posts... it's kind of a litany of problems over time, I know you maybe see this a pattern of bitching, it is, but I feel for the right reasons and if you've got a bunch of things to bitch about, you're going to notice a pattern... a pattern of Ableton problems IMO
what about the pattern with the software? are we hyper-focusing on the negative to the point of excluding the obvious?

your bemoaning is incessant, though not unwarranted... but if we're going to make this about you then lets focus on the part that actually pertains to a music forum and the software. the pattern is in the bits and bytes... not just those who bite the bit. it must be how the occupy Wall St. rallies became near the end... well intentioned but set adrift...

sdfak1234
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by sdfak1234 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:09 am

H20nly wrote:
sdfak1234 wrote:
H20nly wrote:why are you so convinced that i actually went looking for info about you?

and even IF i did... what difference does that make? you wrote it right?
.
cuz the thread is 3 years old? I don't mind to be honest, it makes hardly any difference... in fact when you look at the whole story in context I think it really justifies my posts... it's kind of a litany of problems over time, I know you maybe see this a pattern of bitching, it is, but I feel for the right reasons and if you've got a bunch of things to bitch about, you're going to notice a pattern... a pattern of Ableton problems IMO
what about the pattern with the software? are we hyper-focusing on the negative to the point of excluding the obvious?

your bemoaning is incessant, though not unwarranted... but if we're going to make this about you then lets focus on the part that actually pertains to a music forum and the software. the pattern is in the bits and bytes... not just those who bite the bit. it must be how the occupy Wall St. rallies became near the end... well intentioned but set adrift...
I really do have to leave this discussion because I actually do have to get back into work this weekend, I have been deliberately reiterating a point and trying to focus on every possible aspect. I think I have largely succeeded, but I hope the bemoaning towards Ableton continues from others, it'd be nice if it wasn't the same voices over and over again, the point has actually been made, but I do think it needs to be a hot topic until it is addressed. We're basically arguing about scale here, some people obviously don't see it as big a problem as others, I predict it will be addressed sooner than later, too late though. Reviewing the discussion, I've been talking about software, sorry if people took things personal, but I don't think I'm responsible for this becoming about people.

With regards hyper focusing on negatives, I really don't think everyone's doing that, I think I'm being objective, as much I can be anyway, I mean you probably noticed large gaps in my posting history, well during those times things are mostly fine, I hear you about patterns, but there isn't really a pattern with me personally, I seldom post and only really get involved in what I consider very serious issues. I usually find the right tool for the job and get on with making records... BUT this particular thing kinda came as a surprise and it's thrown me out whack, slightly embarrassed looking back, baring in mind, I see this as a tip of an iceberg, this issue says a lot to me and the issues with the company surrounding it.. obviously if you've been a Live user for a long time, this must be a moment where you're extrapolating the future based on past events and the other available options/things on the horizon.

I don't think all hope is lost, if Live gets PDC sorted I'm sure I'll go back, but I'm actually looking forward to a new start with Cubase, I think it's more focused at the moment, I may have considered Presonus if I wasn't eligible for the upgrade price. In a nutshell I think I was betting on Ableton, and basically lost my shirt. Thanks for your words Akshara, appreciated. Bye for now.

petit nuage
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by petit nuage » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:46 pm

my english level doesnt allow me to discuss with precision and nuances so im a bit discreet here, but i want to thanks you all to contribute with passion and to giving to us, informations, thoughts, tips etc...
it will be soo niice if ableton could tell a little word...just for reassuring us :wink:

andydes
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by andydes » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:19 pm

If they are working on it, they won't say anything more until it's ready to go.

I'd guess they are working on it, because frankly they don't need the bad publicity, and I think they do actually want live to be as good as it can be.

If it was an easy fix, they'd have done it by now. Seems likely that it's buried deep in low level program. Possibly written by someone who's left the company. No telling how hard it would be to solve.

While I'm on the subject, the argument of "why waste time on whistling to midi features or adding the glue when this isn't fixed?" is flawed. Those are additional features that can be written on top of the core program. You just have to hire someone to do it. Meddling with core functionality is trickier and more likely to screw up other parts of the program.

Hopefully, they'll be able to sort this out at or not long after live 9 release. I doubt there'll be a fix for 8

soultwist
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by soultwist » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:24 pm

Wow, 5 more pages since I last checked this thread! Surely I'll find some useful info and reports/screenshots of PDC issues in the beta release...

NOPE

timday
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by timday » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:35 pm

NOPE because, as stated somewhere on the forums, the Beta testers have been asked to be quiet about any features that may or may not be there because the Beta, by definition, is not ready for release. There certainly won't be any screenshots or detailed reports.

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