LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
ze2be
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by ze2be » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:54 pm

-> quickly gets some popcorn.

dolomick
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by dolomick » Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:56 pm

I read most of this thread but never saw an Ableton Rep commenting either way about this issue, correct?

sdfak1234
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by sdfak1234 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:00 am

kent_sandvik wrote:
sdfak1234 wrote:
kent_sandvik wrote: OK. If you think that's a logical way to discuss a technical issue, that's fine for me.
There is no logic or technicality in these posts. Please dont waste our time. Logical discussion. Technical. Ha.

Also nobody was discussing anything with you. I was speaking specifically to Ableton's ultimate agonist. If you want to have a discussion, read the thread dont just jump in blurting out the first thing in your head. There was NOTHING logical about your post in the context of this thread and Tone is just a wanker, no logic needed there.
Hmm. This is indeed an interesting discussion about PDC and Ableton Live.
Well obviously not. Just to be clear that was just an offshoot of this discussion. Tone Deft completely offended me with his stupid comment, absolutely wrong on every level and making grand accusations about people, I don't know who he thinks he is, but most of his comments are like that, so I just wanted to cut that line of communication off. I don't mind to continue discussion with you, but like Tone, I'd appreciate it if you didn't neglect the rest of the discussion, because I'm repeating myself and some of these comments are so lazy given the length of what we've been talking about. You mention interesting discussion a few times, have you not read half the posts about this? some things are completely taken for granted.
Last edited by sdfak1234 on Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

sdfak1234
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by sdfak1234 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:03 am

dolomick wrote:I read most of this thread but never saw an Ableton Rep commenting either way about this issue, correct?
almost correct. an Ableton rep has not commented in this thread, but the issue is not in binary opposition, we're not seeking to confirm it's existence... the issue has existed for some time, and it apparently still persists to this latest version. There has been no word or status update on the issue since it was confirmed by an Ableton rep in Jan 2011.

Tone Deft
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:05 am

dolomick wrote:I read most of this thread but never saw an Ableton Rep commenting either way about this issue, correct?
it's in the manual as an unsupported feature, they've commented about it in the past.

know your DAW, understand what you're doing when you write tunes use your ears.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

sdfak1234
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by sdfak1234 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:08 am

Tone Deft wrote: know your DAW, understand what you're doing when you write tunes use your ears.
this is what I'm talking about... how on earth would using your ears help with this???? holy shit, you don't even get it.

sdfak1234
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by sdfak1234 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:17 am

Tone Deft wrote:
dolomick wrote:I read most of this thread but never saw an Ableton Rep commenting either way about this issue, correct?
it's in the manual as an unsupported feature, they've commented about it in the past.

know your DAW, understand what you're doing when you write tunes use your ears.

Notice the difference between my stance and his??? see he buys the story that this is an unsupported feature.. to me this is deception and just straight up manipulation of reality, they've provided a grid that you can draw lines on that correspond with automation, yet the timing could be off??? don't make me laugh, if you think it is simply an unsupported feature you are kidding yourself, it is a broken feature, incomplete at best... you're completely negating what you are seeing with your own 2 eyes, a grid, lines on the grid, sound not matching up with grid, it is not your problem to think about things like compensation, it's not a feature, it should just happen, take it at face value, don't be such an idiot Tone Deft.
Last edited by sdfak1234 on Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

dolomick
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by dolomick » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:25 am

Oops I was not clear. I know the issue is real and confirmed. What I meant to ask was am I correct in believing an Ableton Rep has not commented on whether or not this issue is being resolved for v9?

sdfak1234
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by sdfak1234 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:28 am

dolomick wrote:Oops I was not clear. I know the issue is real and confirmed. What I meant to ask was am I correct in believing an Ableton Rep has not commented on whether or not this issue is being resolved for v9?
You are correct... but it is looking extremely unlikely for a variety of reasons.

Tone Deft
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:34 am

dolomick wrote:Oops I was not clear. I know the issue is real and confirmed. What I meant to ask was am I correct in believing an Ableton Rep has not commented on whether or not this issue is being resolved for v9?
they did, back in 2011.

viewtopic.php?p=1291720#p1291720
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

kent_sandvik
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by kent_sandvik » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:36 am

I miss Henke's postings.... Those were the receptive days.

Tone Deft
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by Tone Deft » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:39 am

so true.

as you learn this stuff you come to understand that none of it is perfect (Nokatus did an EXCELLENT post on that topic), then you freak out, then you learn what's acceptable and what's not. henke was great at talking about Live's performance and why come design decisions were made. great sense of humor as well.
In my life
Why do I smile
At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
-Moz

H20nly
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by H20nly » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:41 am

kent_sandvik wrote:I miss Henke's postings.... Those were the receptive days.
Henke posted 2 or 3 times during a Live bashing recently. pencilrocket went from 60 to 0 real fast. in fact, i think it may have been the other PDC thread...

back soon...


edit: nope, not the PDC thread... the Operator thread:



viewtopic.php?f=1&t=186727&p=1454540#p1454540

sdfak1234
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by sdfak1234 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:45 am

ok, I'm aware that I'm now using up energy I said I wouldn't but I just had dinner and I found some more...

this message henke wrote back in sep 2009 is a valid point of discussion, about half way down he gets into the automation issue, this is super important, because some really smart people have cited these notes in relation to this issue... first of all, he makes absolutely no mention of any kind of trade off that has lead to automation not being compensated, I think some people have linked the previous paragraph about audio compensation to this, actually from how I read it, he is basically saying they haven't wasted their time on it, for the reasons he has stated - I don't see this as a 'design decision' except the decision not to bother with it. Now on to those reasons, the first thing I noticed and took exception to was the comment "If something happens too late, well, I move it a bit earlier", when you move plugins around and add new ones then the timings shift backwards and forwards, he makes manual compensation sound easy... BUT that being said, it was easier back in 2009 and this is KEY... notice how our computers are much faster now, the plug-ins have evolved, we naturally use more of them which means the problem is bigger, much bigger and much harder to compensate. Others have written that this is a modern issue, but despite that, I find henke's explanation of the rational rather thin and as I've just pointed out... if you supply a timing grid for parameter manipulation and it doesn't keep time, then you've got a broken feature, the mechanics are irrelevant.

paulmaddox
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by paulmaddox » Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:47 am

Very sad that Ableton seem to be just hoping this goes away. Particularly with most of the new features in 9 being more studio-oriented than performance-oriented, it seems very short-sighted to not fix this.

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