LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
leisuremuffin
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by leisuremuffin » Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:24 pm

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simpli.cissimus
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by simpli.cissimus » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:08 pm

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No! I'll never use the Push-App Live 9 !!!

simpli.cissimus
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by simpli.cissimus » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:09 pm

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No! I'll never use the Push-App Live 9 !!!

simpli.cissimus
Posts: 518
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:33 pm

Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by simpli.cissimus » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:10 pm

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No! I'll never use the Push-App Live 9 !!!

simpli.cissimus
Posts: 518
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:33 pm

Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by simpli.cissimus » Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:10 pm

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No! I'll never use the Push-App Live 9 !!!

merges
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by merges » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:54 am

Keep going, just 132 more posts to millithread.

simpli.cissimus
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by simpli.cissimus » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:08 pm

There is another three years to post about PDC till Live 10,
so don't worry it'll come to 10,ooo easy ! :mrgreen:
No! I'll never use the Push-App Live 9 !!!

kayhel
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by kayhel » Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:34 am

I still think that it is NOT too difficult to implement proper automation delay compensation and metering sync.
My assumtion is that the audio pdc algorithm in live (which is working nice) is calculating the delay of the plugins in a chain and is summarizing it up correctly.
So live could store the audio time offset of every plugin within the plugin.
All (midi) automation addressed to a certain plugin simply needs to be delayed by this offset.
This could probably be done with a vst plugin if they find buffering implementation too complicated. Of course EVERY plugin that has at least one automation stream needs to have its own "midi" delay.
But thats all and i cannot get that after 3 years it is still not implemented.
2009 the ableton people told me that they are completely overhauling the core time engine of live in live 9.
Now it seems that this is simply not been done.
Still, my suggested solution should be easy to implement-but it will cost some cpu...

For the metering sync, the solution is exactly the same, but the meter needs to have an audio delay before, not an automation/midi delay. The built in delay would work for that-well it needs to be hidden ;-)

I really fear that they have lost all of their core developers-theis code brains.
Otherwise that should be implemented in less than a week.
Sorry.
Bitwig 1.0, Live8 Suite Boxed, Studio One Professional, Melodyne Assistant
Komplete Ultimate, Sylenth, Ozone5

pencilrocket
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by pencilrocket » Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:52 am

A few trolls are trying to have this thread locked by posing spam images. Shame.
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simpli.cissimus
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by simpli.cissimus » Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:20 pm

kayhel wrote:I still think that it is NOT too difficult to implement proper automation delay compensation and metering sync.
My assumtion is that the audio pdc algorithm in live (which is working nice) is calculating the delay of the plugins in a chain and is summarizing it up correctly.
So live could store the audio time offset of every plugin within the plugin.
All (midi) automation addressed to a certain plugin simply needs to be delayed by this offset.
This could probably be done with a vst plugin if they find buffering implementation too complicated. Of course EVERY plugin that has at least one automation stream needs to have its own "midi" delay.
But thats all and i cannot get that after 3 years it is still not implemented.
2009 the ableton people told me that they are completely overhauling the core time engine of live in live 9.
Now it seems that this is simply not been done.
Still, my suggested solution should be easy to implement-but it will cost some cpu...

For the metering sync, the solution is exactly the same, but the meter needs to have an audio delay before, not an automation/midi delay. The built in delay would work for that-well it needs to be hidden ;-)

I really fear that they have lost all of their core developers-theis code brains.
Otherwise that should be implemented in less than a week.
Sorry.
The problem with the midi is, that it is the only thing that is correct in time.
Audio gets compensated and that for it must be delayed.
The midi isn't corrected and stays in the original time line
and after audio was delayd, the midi comes in to soon.

As other developers showed years ago, midi can be easy compensated too,
and brought into the same time line like the audio.

There are some measurement tool to measure the audio delay from any vst, but that isn't much of a problem.
It is the midi that isn't correct !!! With that the automation too !
Having this over three years, sit around and do nothing to fix it is ridiculous and a big fail !

Some people I work for are developers and they told me about Live's problematic program code years ago,
and I was very surprised at that time. I always thought Abletons are genius.
Slowly I changed my thoughts..., and now I'm just angry about their ignorance and the
way they go over this with a new still not corrected Live 9 !

Other developers contacted and asked Ableton too years ago to fix this issue,
as they got complaints about this timing problem.

It's very simple: If you want to fix it it can be fixed !
If you think you can get away without, then not !
And that is what Ableton did with Live 9 !

Add some features make the kids drool and pass this timing issue.
But in reality none of this features are helping to finish real productions.

Those new features are toys to play with and and to perform.
That is what the kids mostly like, have a big toy in front to make them look cool.
Many funky, shiny buttons and colored lights ! WOOOW, sold !!!!

Features - Shmeatures ! Who needs a correct timing when he doesn't hear it !!!
The most of them can't play a chord or read a note.
They are now hyped, thinking they gonna be the next Skrillex with that
"sing into a mike to midi feature" so they also gonna make some cool music !
But after they buy it, they will see that even that isn't making a finished song.

On the other hand, a correct midi timing will !
As most music these days rely on automation.
When this can't be done correct in time,
it will sound just bad and make the whole producing a pain in the *** !

----

Happy New Year to all !!!
No! I'll never use the Push-App Live 9 !!!

leisuremuffin
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by leisuremuffin » Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:58 pm

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hoffman2k
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by hoffman2k » Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:42 pm

pencilrocket wrote:A few trolls are trying to have this thread locked by posing spam images. Shame.
As long as spandex isn't involved, we should be fine.

If you want some proper stats on how well passive aggressiveness on forums pays off for the future development of products, I'd recommend any forum discussing EA Games.
Every time somebody threatens to never buy an EA game again, the company grows 100%.
Every time somebody calls them incompetent, they release another game.
And every time somebody says Apple sucks, Apple makes another Billion.

simpli.cissimus
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by simpli.cissimus » Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:57 pm

hoffman2k wrote: And every time somebody says Apple sucks, Apple makes another Billion.
Apple sucks ! Apple sucks ! Apple sucks !
I just made another 3 billions for Apple... :mrgreen:

Anyone needs a billion too, just let me know ! :wink:
No! I'll never use the Push-App Live 9 !!!

pencilrocket
Posts: 1718
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:46 am

Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by pencilrocket » Tue Jan 01, 2013 12:57 pm

hoffman2k wrote: And every time somebody says Apple sucks, Apple makes another Billion.
Really?
This percentage shows they suck in their principal job - unless they are thinking their principal job is to make mobile phone.
http://www.netmarketshare.com/operating ... pcustomb=0

Ouch they suck in their sideline job. 30% decline
http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=AAPL ... l;range=6m
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puzzlefactory
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Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?

Post by puzzlefactory » Tue Jan 01, 2013 1:09 pm

pencilrocket wrote: - unless they are thinking their principal job is to make mobile phone.

Of course it is. Where do you think they are making the majority of their money?

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