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 Post subject: Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 4:49 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
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simpli.cissimus wrote:
Deadmau5 knows nothing !

i bet he knows how to use the quote button.


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 Post subject: Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:21 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:45 am
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 Post subject: Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:22 pm 

Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:33 pm
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H20nly wrote:
i bet he knows how to use the quote button.

...but you're not sure !?

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No! I'll never use the Push-App Live 9 !!!


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 Post subject: Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:24 pm 

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 Post subject: Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:08 pm 

Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:33 pm
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No! I'll never use the Push-App Live 9 !!!


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 Post subject: Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:09 pm 

Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:33 pm
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No! I'll never use the Push-App Live 9 !!!


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 Post subject: Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:10 pm 

Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:33 pm
Posts: 518
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No! I'll never use the Push-App Live 9 !!!


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 Post subject: Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2012 9:10 pm 

Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:33 pm
Posts: 518
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No! I'll never use the Push-App Live 9 !!!


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 Post subject: Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:54 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:06 pm
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Location: vancouver
Keep going, just 132 more posts to millithread.


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 Post subject: Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:08 pm 

Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:33 pm
Posts: 518
There is another three years to post about PDC till Live 10,
so don't worry it'll come to 10,ooo easy ! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:34 am 

Joined: Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:52 pm
Posts: 46
I still think that it is NOT too difficult to implement proper automation delay compensation and metering sync.
My assumtion is that the audio pdc algorithm in live (which is working nice) is calculating the delay of the plugins in a chain and is summarizing it up correctly.
So live could store the audio time offset of every plugin within the plugin.
All (midi) automation addressed to a certain plugin simply needs to be delayed by this offset.
This could probably be done with a vst plugin if they find buffering implementation too complicated. Of course EVERY plugin that has at least one automation stream needs to have its own "midi" delay.
But thats all and i cannot get that after 3 years it is still not implemented.
2009 the ableton people told me that they are completely overhauling the core time engine of live in live 9.
Now it seems that this is simply not been done.
Still, my suggested solution should be easy to implement-but it will cost some cpu...

For the metering sync, the solution is exactly the same, but the meter needs to have an audio delay before, not an automation/midi delay. The built in delay would work for that-well it needs to be hidden ;-)

I really fear that they have lost all of their core developers-theis code brains.
Otherwise that should be implemented in less than a week.
Sorry.

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 Post subject: Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:52 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:46 am
Posts: 1420
A few trolls are trying to have this thread locked by posing spam images. Shame.

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 Post subject: Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:20 pm 

Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 5:33 pm
Posts: 518
kayhel wrote:
I still think that it is NOT too difficult to implement proper automation delay compensation and metering sync.
My assumtion is that the audio pdc algorithm in live (which is working nice) is calculating the delay of the plugins in a chain and is summarizing it up correctly.
So live could store the audio time offset of every plugin within the plugin.
All (midi) automation addressed to a certain plugin simply needs to be delayed by this offset.
This could probably be done with a vst plugin if they find buffering implementation too complicated. Of course EVERY plugin that has at least one automation stream needs to have its own "midi" delay.
But thats all and i cannot get that after 3 years it is still not implemented.
2009 the ableton people told me that they are completely overhauling the core time engine of live in live 9.
Now it seems that this is simply not been done.
Still, my suggested solution should be easy to implement-but it will cost some cpu...

For the metering sync, the solution is exactly the same, but the meter needs to have an audio delay before, not an automation/midi delay. The built in delay would work for that-well it needs to be hidden ;-)

I really fear that they have lost all of their core developers-theis code brains.
Otherwise that should be implemented in less than a week.
Sorry.

The problem with the midi is, that it is the only thing that is correct in time.
Audio gets compensated and that for it must be delayed.
The midi isn't corrected and stays in the original time line
and after audio was delayd, the midi comes in to soon.

As other developers showed years ago, midi can be easy compensated too,
and brought into the same time line like the audio.

There are some measurement tool to measure the audio delay from any vst, but that isn't much of a problem.
It is the midi that isn't correct !!! With that the automation too !
Having this over three years, sit around and do nothing to fix it is ridiculous and a big fail !

Some people I work for are developers and they told me about Live's problematic program code years ago,
and I was very surprised at that time. I always thought Abletons are genius.
Slowly I changed my thoughts..., and now I'm just angry about their ignorance and the
way they go over this with a new still not corrected Live 9 !

Other developers contacted and asked Ableton too years ago to fix this issue,
as they got complaints about this timing problem.

It's very simple: If you want to fix it it can be fixed !
If you think you can get away without, then not !
And that is what Ableton did with Live 9 !

Add some features make the kids drool and pass this timing issue.
But in reality none of this features are helping to finish real productions.

Those new features are toys to play with and and to perform.
That is what the kids mostly like, have a big toy in front to make them look cool.
Many funky, shiny buttons and colored lights ! WOOOW, sold !!!!

Features - Shmeatures ! Who needs a correct timing when he doesn't hear it !!!
The most of them can't play a chord or read a note.
They are now hyped, thinking they gonna be the next Skrillex with that
"sing into a mike to midi feature" so they also gonna make some cool music !
But after they buy it, they will see that even that isn't making a finished song.

On the other hand, a correct midi timing will !
As most music these days rely on automation.
When this can't be done correct in time,
it will sound just bad and make the whole producing a pain in the *** !

----

Happy New Year to all !!!

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 Post subject: Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:58 pm 

Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2004 12:45 am
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 Post subject: Re: LIVE 9 : PDC IMPROVED OR NOT ?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 5:42 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2004 6:40 pm
Posts: 14473
Location: Belgium
pencilrocket wrote:
A few trolls are trying to have this thread locked by posing spam images. Shame.


As long as spandex isn't involved, we should be fine.

If you want some proper stats on how well passive aggressiveness on forums pays off for the future development of products, I'd recommend any forum discussing EA Games.
Every time somebody threatens to never buy an EA game again, the company grows 100%.
Every time somebody calls them incompetent, they release another game.
And every time somebody says Apple sucks, Apple makes another Billion.


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