Live 9 looks great and Push is a no brainer!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
kevwestbeats
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Re: Live 9 looks great and Push is a no brainer!

Post by kevwestbeats » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:38 am

Jesse wrote: In general, the new browser offers some really cool ways to access your one shot samples and device presets. For example, if you have drums scattered across your computer, you just drag the folders to be "Places". Once this is done, if you browse for "hi-hat" from Push, it sees all your hi-hats, from everywhere across your computer, in one place (provided they are in a folder called "Hi-Hat," etc. This extends to external drive folders dragged to places as well -- which are dynamically shown/hidden if the drive is attached.

Best,
Jesse
Push Project Manager
Thanks Jesse I was hoping the browser had that feature. So glad I didn't buy Maschine last month.This will be a lot more fitting for me and my workflow. Sadly though I want Massive still lol
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Jesse
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Re: Live 9 looks great and Push is a no brainer!

Post by Jesse » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:08 am

condra wrote:
Jesse wrote:The workaround, for the moment, is to save a VST into an Ableton rack, with parameters laid out as you'd like. Push both sees these presets in it's browser, and automatically maps to the device controls. The wish for more automatic control of VSTs is noted though.
I would have no problem with racking up and mapping a VST to use it with Push, assuming I can:
*map all parameters, not just 8
*save the mapping preset and access it later (i.e that I only have to map something like Sylenth once.)

I'm not sure if you are talking about Macros or "Configuration Mode".
It would be cool to be able to either scroll through pages of Macros, or rows of "Configuration Mode", perhaps even with APC style graphical boundary box.
It's kind of a combination - configuration mode let's you set up parameters in a way that Push can access them, and racking a VST lets the browser see it. I just tested with Arturia Oberheim Sem. I used 'configuration mode' to map 16 parameters. Once you set up the parameters, you automatically see the first 8 parameters on Push's screen. If you press the "In" button, you can get to different banks (in my case, I set up 16 parameters, so I had bank 1 and bank 2 to choose from.)

If you save the preset as a rack, then it shows up in Push's browser as a preset too.

So, a bit of setup work with VSTs, but easy access once you do it. Now you have me excited to do this with my VSTs...

Tone Deft
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Re: Live 9 looks great and Push is a no brainer!

Post by Tone Deft » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:16 am

thanks Jesse.
"Obsession is a great substitute for talent." - Steve Martin on learning the banjo

Dell Inspiron 15 7000, Live 10.1, Win10 Home, Edirol UA101, APC40, Remote SL, SPD-SX, mic, POD500HDX, JX305, Nova
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3dot...
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Re: Live 9 looks great and Push is a no brainer!

Post by 3dot... » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:25 am

if nothing changed in the way Live saves VST parameters.. then that's bad...
for one..
there is a limit of 256 parameters... most modern soft synths have more..
please remove this limit. change a data type if you have to.

vst 'configuration mode' fiasco:
there is no real way to organize your "banks" the way you want them...
there are no "dummy"/filler parameters to create spaces when mapping...
for instance..
I like to build my own synth sounds... hands on.
I'm mapping a synth and I'm done with mapping the Oscillators.
I've mapped 15 parameters (almost 2 banks of 8).
the next parameter I want up is the filter cutoff...
but I want it to be param. #17 so it'll be the 1st in a 3rd new bank..(new section)
logically speaking.. there is no 1 parameter I want to put at #16..
but I'm forced to (if I want the filter cutoff where I want it).
I can't set a vst parameter duplicate.. and no "filler" parameter instead

this has the effect of creating chaos in the mapped Plugins logical order.
the only way I get past this is the LCD screens on my remoteSL...
and a good but fading memory skill

this is why I use Live 'control surface' less and Novation AutoMap more...
in Automap ...there is no parameter limit... you can scale your controls...
AND you can place them freely on the controller
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Jesse
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Re: Live 9 looks great and Push is a no brainer!

Post by Jesse » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:37 am

Push is primarily focused to work with Ableton devices, it's what we have the most control over and the most knowledge of. But I can't argue with you on this, we could do much better with VST integration in Live in general. Your list is a great summary of our deficiencies, and noted.

3dot...
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Re: Live 9 looks great and Push is a no brainer!

Post by 3dot... » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:54 am

yep I see.. thanks Jesse... hope these simple things could be implemented
being a long time Live user...
can't wait to try out Push
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TomViolenz
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Re: Live 9 looks great and Push is a no brainer!

Post by TomViolenz » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:37 am

Hey guys,

long time lurker here.
I'm thrilled with the Push announcement but also have some questions/concerns about it that maybe Jesse could answer. 1st. the preset thing:
so if I save a vst (or even an Live instrument like sampler) to a rack to which I have "configured" lets say 32 of its parameters and I reopen this rack via Push. Will it automatically populate 4 banks of 8 encoders each on Push, or will there be some tedious midi assignment involved as it is today in Live 8 with all midi controllers I have tried?!
2nd. in that case will it be possible to rename those controls on the rack or will it only display those names send from the vst itself (which are often not very sensible). The same with the banks. Lets say instead of Bank 1, 2, 3..; Filter, LFOs; Envelopes...
3rd. If I load one of those racks onto on track and another instance of it on another, will Push be able to control each instance independently of the other?
4th. Will it be possible to control all of the assigned parameters in the step-sequencer on a per step basis? (meaning e.g.: holding a step pushed, switching to the bank "LFOs", turn the encoder "Rate" and by this change the specific rate of the LFO at this step)
and 5th. Will the device I am controlling at the time on Push be in focus (meaning visible) on the computer monitor and with changing the controlled device on Push, also the device shown on the monitor will be changed?!
Thank you very much for taking your time to read and answer those questions, as those answers determine VERY much how much I look forward to the release of Push :-)
Tom

Edit: Oh, one more question as I seem to get conflicting information from the web: How many steps are accessible at any time in the step sequencer? Only 8 as some have claimed, 32 as it seems from the videos or even up to 64 (that would be fantastic!)?

TomViolenz
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Re: Live 9 looks great and Push is a no brainer!

Post by TomViolenz » Fri Oct 26, 2012 2:10 pm

Oh, some more questions I can't figure out from the videos: How does one know what is on the each of the 16 lower-left pads? There doesn't seem to be a view of it on Push's screen, or is there? (I guess the same Question for the loop length selection - lower-right pads) Will I have to remember each of the 16 pads in however many tracks I'm using
(Will the population of those Pads always be done through DrumRacks?)
Can the pressure sensitivity of the pads be assigned to other things than volume (e.g. filter cut of), how about the touch strip, can this be assigned to other things than pitch bend?
Thanks again for your time :-)

TomViolenz
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Re: Live 9 looks great and Push is a no brainer!

Post by TomViolenz » Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:51 pm

Bump

banned
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Re: Live 9 looks great and Push is a no brainer!

Post by banned » Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:11 am

How does the Push communicate with Live? Does it send/receive plain MIDI and show up as a MIDI device on the OS, or does it use some proprietary protocol? The reason I ask, is because Push would be more interesting to me if it can also be used without Ableton Live.

FrankieP
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Re: Live 9 looks great and Push is a no brainer!

Post by FrankieP » Sat Oct 27, 2012 12:44 am

Meh! I have an APC40. I was excited when it first came out. Now, i hardly ever use it. I guess i'll feel the same way with Push. I'm not much into button pushing and knob twirling. I can do that with a mouse and a midi keyboard. Maybe if I work in Session view more than the Arrangement view, then yeah, Push would be great.

TabSel
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Re: Live 9 looks great and Push is a no brainer!

Post by TabSel » Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:07 am

Jesse wrote:...configuration mode let's you set up parameters in a way that Push can access them, and racking a VST lets the browser see it...
Why not create a rack for each newly scanned VST automatically?

Plugins with less or equal X numbers of parameters are auto configured already, with X specified in the options txt file currently with live 8. Perfect to prevent clutter, btw.

This way each new installed/scanned plugin would be instantly browsable and auto configured?

It's the small things which help preventing repetitious, unmusical work...

Jesse
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Live 9 looks great and Push is a no brainer!

Post by Jesse » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:19 am

TomViolenz wrote: if I save a vst (or even an Live instrument like sampler) to a rack to which I have "configured" lets say 32 of its parameters and I reopen this rack via Push. Will it automatically populate 4 banks of 8 encoders each on Push, or will there be some tedious midi assignment involved as it is today in Live 8 with all midi controllers I have tried?!
It will automatically populate 4 banks of encoders (you need to press "In" to get to them from the top level).
TomViolenz wrote: 2nd. in that case will it be possible to rename those controls on the rack or will it only display those names send from the vst itself (which are often not very sensible). The same with the banks. Lets say instead of Bank 1, 2, 3..; Filter, LFOs; Envelopes...
You can only rename Ableton device rack parameters, not the unfortunately named parameters of many VSTs
TomViolenz wrote: 3rd. If I load one of those racks onto on track and another instance of it on another, will Push be able to control each instance independently of the other?
Yes
TomViolenz wrote: 4th. Will it be possible to control all of the assigned parameters in the step-sequencer on a per step basis? (meaning e.g.: holding a step pushed, switching to the bank "LFOs", turn the encoder "Rate" and by this change the specific rate of the LFO at this step)
No...no per step automation on Push, though many of us would love to see it.
TomViolenz wrote: and 5th. Will the device I am controlling at the time on Push be in focus (meaning visible) on the computer monitor and with changing the controlled device on Push, also the device shown on the monitor will be changed?!
Usually, though the way this works hasn't completely been set.
TomViolenz wrote: Edit: Oh, one more question as I seem to get conflicting information from the web: How many steps are accessible at any time in the step sequencer? Only 8 as some have claimed, 32 as it seems from the videos or even up to 64 (that would be fantastic!)?
32 steps for the step sequencer, 16 for drum pads, and 16 to set/select the loop. Those 32 steps can be 1/32t to 1/4 notes in length.

Willyum
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Re: Live 9 looks great and Push is a no brainer!

Post by Willyum » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:45 am

Have any of the actual instruments been updated, or is it just the FX (eg. time stretch in simpler/sampler)?

looprication
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Re: Live 9 looks great and Push is a no brainer!

Post by looprication » Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:28 pm

Jesse wrote:Push is primarily focused to work with Ableton devices, it's what we have the most control over and the most knowledge of. But I can't argue with you on this, we could do much better with VST integration in Live in general. Your list is a great summary of our deficiencies, and noted.
While I understand this, and I'm sure a decent workaround will be possible, it's still disappointing. I *HATE* Native Instruments for the fact that they killed Kore (hoping Push will fill some of that void at some point), but I do use a lot of their plugins, and it would be great to have some options to browse presets without the keyboard and mouse.

Will Push allow browsing of Ableton plugin patches at all?

Cheers,

-ix
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