Live 9 Pricing

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
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Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by login » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:09 am

The problem is that they advertise the price as an upgrade to suite 8 with 25% off, when in reality is the price to upgrade to live 9 suite, with 25% off.

The real price for the upgrade from live 8 o suite was 262 USD.

So in the end is not that bad, but the way they are advertising it is misleading, in reality there is no FREE update, since they increased the price from 262 to 399 USD.

They could come more transparent and honest with a more correct wording of their pricing and upgrading scheme.

tommyecho
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Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by tommyecho » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:19 am

artpunk wrote:I would have thought it would be nice/reasonable for Ableton to honour the original posted upgrade price for those who placed the order in their cart when it was listed as such. Ableton is in no way obliged to do this however, but it would be good PR. For those who didn't take advantage of those prices at the time, I certainly wouldn't call them stupid, I mean how were they to know. It is frustrating for them certainly, but just one of those things. I was in a similar situation a while back when a similar glitch occurred for upgrades to Ableton. I meant to jump on board, but delayed as I needed to check my bank balance...when I came back the prices had changed, I think I had placed the upgrade in my cart, but honestly can't accurately recall that detail. I emailed support and they explained that it had been a mistake & apologised. I certainly didn't demand that I get my upgrade at the incorrect price, I just decided to wait for a future opportunity...I think I was one of the lucky ones here, because I purchased the upgrade offer to suite from standard as soon as I saw it the other day. I am not worried about Ableton honouring the offer of the free upgrade to 9 as I always assumed and am sure they will, as I bought the upgrade on that basis, as advertised. I did not even know there had been a mistake until I saw this thread. To be honest, I get a bit confused by Ableton's upgrade pricing schedules & I thought the price I got was based on the fact I had a M4L licence as well, as Ableton seem to factor previous license purchases into their upgrade pricing.

I know I am in a fortunate position & can understand the frustration factor if you are one of those who missed out, like I did on that previous occasion, but I cannot understand why anyone would expect Ableton to continue offer a product the wrong price, whether it was their fault or not, after they had realised and corrected their mistake. If they did that for everybody that said "Oh, I was going to get it when that (mistaken) price was on offer" - Well, everyone would email them saying that, wouldn't they? It was a mistake people, why should anyone expect them to follow the loss that they must have inevitably made from those who did get the wrong upgrade prices during the glitch period with even more loss? The company needs to stay viable and that involves making rational business and pricing decisions. Ableton 9 is such a brilliant upgrade I would have gladly paid what they are now asking for the upgrades or even a bit more to be honest.
I'm with artpunk on this one. 100%.

tommyecho
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Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by tommyecho » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:36 am

Now, I hate to add to the pile of unwieldy metaphors that have been accumulating in this thread, but. . .

I was recently at the grocery store buying a new york strip in the meat department. I noticed that the price on my NY strip was surprisingly cheap: $3.00. I was a little out of it after a long day, and my first reaction was to ask the butcher if he had mistakenly given me a smaller steak than I wanted (not my smartest moment). He looked at the price and said, smilingly "You shouldn't have said anything! You would have had the best deal in the store!". Then he explained that he had accidentally entered the wrong kind of meat when he weighed it. He corrected the mistake and gave me my strip, which was now correctly priced at $13. Now, I'm on familiar terms with this guy. He's a very nice fellow, and there was no need to sour things over having to pay what was, indeed, the actual price of this particular cut. Some people would think it wasn't worth the price, but I myself love grilling, and I was really looking forward to trying to perfect my quadrillage . . . I missed my chance on the good deal, though! . . .when I think about it, it seems like it's not the best quality for me to wish I could turn back time so that I could take advantage of this guy's mistake. :|

Sorry for the boring story. . . It just struck me how similar these two situations are. I missed my opportunity to take advantage of Ableton's mistake, because I, true to form, was confused by the pricing structure and was waiting for a response from tech support that would clarify things for me (my confusion disappeared once they announced that the prices were wrong). At first, it irked me when I went back to the site and found that my price had shot up $100. I even wrote them an email saying how annoying this was. Having given it a bit of thought, I just don't think it's that big of a deal. It was an honest mistake, and some folks got lucky. No need for me to throw a fit over it. I have gotten a lot out of using Ableton Live. They make a great product, and I am truly excited about this great release. 2013 is gonna be fun :D

Surreal
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Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by Surreal » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:45 am

Entitlement is a wondrous thing.

tommyecho
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Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by tommyecho » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:55 am

Can anyone in the United States who ONLY has Live 8 standard without Max for live please tell me what the price is for them to upgrade to Live 8 Suite now? Is it $299, or is it more? Just curious. . .

Thanks!

Tom

kent_sandvik
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Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by kent_sandvik » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:37 am

If the Suite 8 upgrade would have had a price of $99 I would have contacted Ableton ASAP telling them that there's a mistake and they should fix it.

The price was $199 and I thought, wow, that's a nice gesture for existing Ableton Live users upgrading to the suite so I told people left and right, online and private, to upgrade. It thought was even a brilliant idea to get people upgraded to suite for future suite upgrade pricing. I missed upgrading it myself that day as I don't like doing private web transactions at work.

When they corrected the mistake and hiked the price to $299, I thought, Ok at least they honor the old pricing for a while for those who assumed this was the case as good companies do this, if nothing else by contacting them directly. I was wrong.

As the price is $299 just now, just looking at the price itself, an upgrade from Live 8 to the suite, even including suite 9, is not that optimal. You get tools that you most likely have already and the only benefit is MFL which in my eyes would have been a $200 upgrade price from Live 9 to Live 9 with MFL.

So everyone lost, both customers and Ableton that now got a bad reputation about their mismanagement of store pricing and existing customers.

artpunk
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Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by artpunk » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:22 am

You get tools you probably already have? Ummm.... Well no, I don't have those tools. I am so stoked about 9 coming out because of the new tools on offer that I don't have. Audio to midi, Glue, Midi transformation tools and more....
I don't think anyone has 'lost' anything here, could it be your personal perception and annoyance that you lost an opportunity or missed out due to Ableton's mistake being corrected before you put your money down? I have said it would have been nice if Ableton had left pricing the same for those who had placed the upgrade in their cart, but that wasn't what happened, so you can accept that and move on or not.
Exactly the same thing happened to me previously, but did I complain? No. Should I have back then & should you complain now? I honestly don't think so, for all the reasons that have been given in this and the other thread. Ableton have a business to run.
I for one am very happy to buy and use their products. I think Live is a brilliant DAW and it is set to become even better with 9. I see no point in talking down their brand. Certainly they could improve their pricing structure set-up and try to prevent anomalies like this occurring in the future. I have also expressed my belief that letting people who added the original wrong price upgrade to their cart keep it, but they didn't, so there it is.
Ask yourself, if the mistake hadn't been made in the first place would you be here whinging about how expensive the upgrade pathway to 9 is? You have already said $200 covers adding M4L to the equation, then look at all the new goodies coming and the incredible amount of extra instruments on offer for suite.... well every one can do the maths and make their mind up if what you are getting is a good deal or not. I would pay the current price Ableton are asking and probably more for the upgrade but thats me, others can make their own decision.
Kent - I admit I was very fortunate this time. I hope you get fortunate in future, but feeling negative about it is only really going to make yourself feel bad...
Peace.

“... it was just to make an average listener go: ‘What the fuck is this?’ That’s a real inspiration for me and something that I will explore more on upcoming recordings.”
- Wally De Backer (Gotye) quoting Ween's intention behind making records

ttilberg
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Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by ttilberg » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:33 am

tommyecho wrote:
artpunk wrote:I would have thought it would be nice/reasonable for Ableton to honour the original posted upgrade price for those who placed the order in their cart when it was listed as such. Ableton is in no way obliged to do this however, but it would be good PR. For those who didn't take advantage of those prices at the time, I certainly wouldn't call them stupid, I mean how were they to know. It is frustrating for them certainly, but just one of those things. I was in a similar situation a while back when a similar glitch occurred for upgrades to Ableton. I meant to jump on board, but delayed as I needed to check my bank balance...when I came back the prices had changed, I think I had placed the upgrade in my cart, but honestly can't accurately recall that detail. I emailed support and they explained that it had been a mistake & apologised. I certainly didn't demand that I get my upgrade at the incorrect price, I just decided to wait for a future opportunity...I think I was one of the lucky ones here, because I purchased the upgrade offer to suite from standard as soon as I saw it the other day. I am not worried about Ableton honouring the offer of the free upgrade to 9 as I always assumed and am sure they will, as I bought the upgrade on that basis, as advertised. I did not even know there had been a mistake until I saw this thread. To be honest, I get a bit confused by Ableton's upgrade pricing schedules & I thought the price I got was based on the fact I had a M4L licence as well, as Ableton seem to factor previous license purchases into their upgrade pricing.

I know I am in a fortunate position & can understand the frustration factor if you are one of those who missed out, like I did on that previous occasion, but I cannot understand why anyone would expect Ableton to continue offer a product the wrong price, whether it was their fault or not, after they had realised and corrected their mistake. If they did that for everybody that said "Oh, I was going to get it when that (mistaken) price was on offer" - Well, everyone would email them saying that, wouldn't they? It was a mistake people, why should anyone expect them to follow the loss that they must have inevitably made from those who did get the wrong upgrade prices during the glitch period with even more loss? The company needs to stay viable and that involves making rational business and pricing decisions. Ableton 9 is such a brilliant upgrade I would have gladly paid what they are now asking for the upgrades or even a bit more to be honest.
I'm with artpunk on this one. 100%.
I'm with tommyecho on this one. 100%.
Tim Tilberg - Duluth, MN | SoundCloud - Arsenal
2011 13" MBP w/8GB ram | Live 9 Suite, Reason 6.5, FXPansion DCAM/Etch/Maul, Izotope Ozone 5

exper
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Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by exper » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:52 am

fishmonkey wrote:
either what Live 9 does is or isn't worth the financial investment to you, and as you say there is nothing new about Live's pricing structure.

i don't expect anybody to be happy with the fact that the price changed upwards, but some of the bitching about it is out of proportion with reality.
No, that's not what I said. I said they have raised the price of regular to suite higher that it was in the past. Misleading in the fact that they say "m4l is inlcuded now!" when in fact, the same upgrade which for boxed was $309 is now $469. That is still not giving you m4l until the Suite 9 is released. In the past, when a new version loomed, and they offered this free upgrade to next version with the current one, the price was the same. Its just crappy. Not about money.
fishmonkey wrote:and on the subject of upgrade prices, how many of those other DAW makers have made the R&D investment required to have truly integrated controllers?
NI, and their upgrade prices have always been fair. Heck EVERY other DAW company out there has reasonable upgrade prices. Ableton's prices are like buying the program new every time!

Maschine quickly is getting closer and closer to becoming a DAW itself, and it has a brilliant way of arranging clips and patterns. In fact, I've put together more sketches and idea than I ever did with Live alone. If all I needed to do was mix and process those parts, I can just export to another DAW to finish. No Live needed.


Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but anyone else notice brand new members suddenly appearing for the sole purpose of defending Ableton? Like, you've signed up just to come to their aid or something? :roll:

mendeldrive
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Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by mendeldrive » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:55 am

tommyecho wrote:Can anyone in the United States who ONLY has Live 8 standard without Max for live please tell me what the price is for them to upgrade to Live 8 Suite now? Is it $299, or is it more? Just curious. . .

Thanks!

Tom
I'm in the US and I own Ableton Live 8 Standard without M4L. Upgrade to Live 8 Suite + free upgrade to Live 9 is $299 for me.

dazzer
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Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by dazzer » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:59 am

"They made a mistake on pricing. I'm switching DAWs"

Yep, sounds dumb doesn't it?

A while back during a special, they had a super-cheap upgrade from Live 8 to Suite. I thought: great, I'll buy it tomorrow. Next day came and it turns out it was a mistake and the pricing had been adjusted up. I wrote to them asking if they'd keep the 'mistake' price going as I had it in my cart and didn't get round to buying. They said no. So I didn't upgrade and was pissed off with myself, not them.

This time round when I saw the initial first pricing for the Suite upgrade, I told my wife about it, said it was probably a mistake (basically I got Suite for $35, anyone can see that's a almost too good to be true) and jumped on it. You win some, you lose some.

tl;dr you win some, you lose some.

fishmonkey
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Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by fishmonkey » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:15 am

exper wrote: NI, and their upgrade prices have always been fair. Heck EVERY other DAW company out there has reasonable upgrade prices. Ableton's prices are like buying the program new every time!
really? i just took a cursory look at the official upgrade prices for the current versions of Protools, Cubase, and DP. are you just making shit up or what?

and do NI sell a DAW, if not why use them as an example?

artpunk
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Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by artpunk » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:23 am

exper wrote: Not to be a conspiracy theorist, but anyone else notice brand new members suddenly appearing for the sole purpose of defending Ableton? Like, you've signed up just to come to their aid or something? :roll:
LOL. Let me introduce at least one of these evil sock puppets, if that is what you are inferring these new users are.. hello, my name is Cameron, I live in Melbourne Australia and by trade I am a clinical nurse specialist in a local emergency department.
Yes, I am a new forum poster here. I have been using Live for just over a year now and upgraded to Standard from the launchpad version about 6 months ago. As such I am a newbie, certainly not an experienced user, producer or musician, although I have been playing around with music creation & instruments (probably quite badly) since I was a teenager. As an example, the first program I purchased for my brand new commodore Amiga way back when was Electronic Arts 'Delux Music' I have been playing piano (again badly) since I was 5. I bought my first analogue synthesiser, a Korg MS-20 in the 80’s using the savings from my first real pay-cheques. Unfortunately I don't have that synth anymore. I bought a Mono/Poly soon after. i still have that. I love what Ableton Live can do and am very much looking forward to expanding my experience and ability using it.
I have been happily learning from the amazing amount of help, lessons/tutorials, videos etc both within Live and on-line, but with the announcement of 9 thought I would visit the forum and see waht kind of discussion was going on around this development. I was surprised at some of the negative comments here, but it's a big world and every one has their opinions. I have chimed in on this one as I had experienced a similar experience with mistaken upgrading price in the past with Ableton, so thought my take on it might be relevant. i am not an employee of Ableton or any of their partners. I just like using the software and am excited and enthusiastic about new developments.
I figure positive emotions are far more helpful in the long run than negative, but I know there are some who don't share this view. c'est la vie!
:D

“... it was just to make an average listener go: ‘What the fuck is this?’ That’s a real inspiration for me and something that I will explore more on upcoming recordings.”
- Wally De Backer (Gotye) quoting Ween's intention behind making records

fishmonkey
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Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by fishmonkey » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:31 am

nice try Gerhard!

artpunk
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Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by artpunk » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:39 am

fishmonkey wrote:nice try Gerhard!
You're funny! :D
You can find me on a few forums/sites (monome, mooig, flickr) as 'artpunk' - it is really bloody hard keeping up this complex fake identity whilst heading up Ableton inc. I really am getting quite exhausted!

“... it was just to make an average listener go: ‘What the fuck is this?’ That’s a real inspiration for me and something that I will explore more on upcoming recordings.”
- Wally De Backer (Gotye) quoting Ween's intention behind making records

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