Live 9 Pricing

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
pencilrocket
Posts: 1718
Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:46 am

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by pencilrocket » Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:09 am

quiet_ou wrote:Is there other stuff that is way better? Are the fundamental unfixed problems with live?
Ignorance is bliss. Buy and support them!
Image

re:dream
Posts: 4554
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:42 am
Location: Hoerikwaggo's sunset side...
Contact:

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by re:dream » Fri Feb 22, 2013 2:03 pm

No, ignorance is just ignorance. Maybe there is other software that beats Live hollow. In fact, I would like to know what else is out there - any tool that I can learn about is good...

Evil_Banana
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:55 pm

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by Evil_Banana » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:21 pm

quiet_ou wrote:No, ignorance is just ignorance. Maybe there is other software that beats Live hollow. In fact, I would like to know what else is out there - any tool that I can learn about is good...
It's not so much about what else is out there, that's only a matter of preference, just like Windows vs OSX vs Linux is. You can compare numbers and features, but in the end it's all about what floats your boat and makes you work better.
And no, the prices aren't off the chart either.
But I suppose you're not a Suite-owner that already paid 650 for its software? Ableton's communication has been sub-par to non existing, Suite-owners were first left out, then strung along with the promise of a "special offer" for 4 months and finally received 50E discount as "special" offer. On top of that Suite-owners get 1 single week to make the decision to purchase with discount and there's no discount if they don't go all the way at all. All while newcomers or not fully upgrade Live-users get far better deals.
For comparison:
Upgrade from Live 8 Suite (650Euro MSRP) to L9 Suite = 249 Normal price, 199 "Special offer"
Upgrade from Live 8 Standard (350Euro MSRP) to Live 9 Suite = 299 Normal Price, 224 Pre-order

So, When you don't have Suite, you get 25Euro MORE discount. Even at normal prices the difference is minimal. The 300Euro you paid extra for your Suite? It's worth 50 or 25 at upgrade, and that extra business apparently has even less value to Ableton since they reward new customers with the biggest discounts.
They screwed up the website, they forgot to communicate, they messed up the pricing at launch and didn't fare much better since. After 3 years of waiting and fucking with an unstable L8, and then being strung along for another 4 months, you have to put up with this crap on top of that. And what they basically give you in return for all that crap is Audio to midi (cool), improve clip automation (finally), included an existing compressor, finally fixed that retarted browser to the same standard of everyone else, added a couple of visuals to 4 existing plugins, added all their already existing libraries and M4L, and as for M4L they claim includes 24 fantastic plugins without much explanation of what they do or how they work (thus what you actually get). Not even a picture.
And if you don't need Suite, you get F all discount, half of what I listed above and you get downgraded to some mutated Live Standard hybrid with Suite plugins.

The ignorance is not so much in believing that Live is better than others which is a matter of taste as I said, but rather condoning and encouraging them to be treated this way by supporting them with more money without even complaining about their fuck-ups and lack of appreciation for customer loyalty. And yes, we're not changing the world here, I'm no idealist, but we can at least try steering it a bit more in the right direction by being critical and voicing your opinion. If you have Suite and you were as excited about this upcoming release as many were, then this cattle-treatment is a cold shower. If not and you buy Live Suite right now, you will probably get the sensation when Live 10 releases.

And are there fundamentally unfixed problems with Live? Well, apart from still not having dual monitor support... I don't know. Haven't seen L9 up close yet. However Live 8 was a problemchild for a long long time. So giving people only a single week to try out software to see if it's as problematic or not... it's not much decision-time and feels a lot like being pressured into a sale.

thecageofconsent
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:20 pm
Location: London
Contact:

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by thecageofconsent » Fri Feb 22, 2013 3:53 pm

I own Suite 8, with M4L, and my upgrade price is GBP 139

Surely some mistake?
Core i5 PC / Ableton Live 8 Suite / Novation Impulse 49 / Akai MPK Mini / Alesis M1 520 Active Monitors /
Audio Technika ATH-M50 Headphones / Native Instruments Komplete 8 / Native Instruments Maschine / U-HE Diva
http://soundcloud.com/explodingsands

Evil_Banana
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:55 pm

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by Evil_Banana » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:13 pm

thecageofconsent wrote:I own Suite 8, with M4L, and my upgrade price is GBP 139

Surely some mistake?
Nope, your M4L is worth exactly 30GBP, and i suppose that is the "special offer" price which disappears 1 week after release?

dave dominey
Posts: 514
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2004 4:11 pm

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by dave dominey » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:36 pm

Evil_Banana wrote:
quiet_ou wrote:No, ignorance is just ignorance. Maybe there is other software that beats Live hollow. In fact, I would like to know what else is out there - any tool that I can learn about is good...
It's not so much about what else is out there, that's only a matter of preference, just like Windows vs OSX vs Linux is. You can compare numbers and features, but in the end it's all about what floats your boat and makes you work better.
And no, the prices aren't off the chart either.
But I suppose you're not a Suite-owner that already paid 650 for its software? Ableton's communication has been sub-par to non existing, Suite-owners were first left out, then strung along with the promise of a "special offer" for 4 months and finally received 50E discount as "special" offer. On top of that Suite-owners get 1 single week to make the decision to purchase with discount and there's no discount if they don't go all the way at all. All while newcomers or not fully upgrade Live-users get far better deals.
For comparison:
Upgrade from Live 8 Suite (650Euro MSRP) to L9 Suite = 249 Normal price, 199 "Special offer"
Upgrade from Live 8 Standard (350Euro MSRP) to Live 9 Suite = 299 Normal Price, 224 Pre-order

So, When you don't have Suite, you get 25Euro MORE discount. Even at normal prices the difference is minimal. The 300Euro you paid extra for your Suite? It's worth 50 or 25 at upgrade, and that extra business apparently has even less value to Ableton since they reward new customers with the biggest discounts.
They screwed up the website, they forgot to communicate, they messed up the pricing at launch and didn't fare much better since. After 3 years of waiting and fucking with an unstable L8, and then being strung along for another 4 months, you have to put up with this crap on top of that. And what they basically give you in return for all that crap is Audio to midi (cool), improve clip automation (finally), included an existing compressor, finally fixed that retarted browser to the same standard of everyone else, added a couple of visuals to 4 existing plugins, added all their already existing libraries and M4L, and as for M4L they claim includes 24 fantastic plugins without much explanation of what they do or how they work (thus what you actually get). Not even a picture.
And if you don't need Suite, you get F all discount, half of what I listed above and you get downgraded to some mutated Live Standard hybrid with Suite plugins.

The ignorance is not so much in believing that Live is better than others which is a matter of taste as I said, but rather condoning and encouraging them to be treated this way by supporting them with more money without even complaining about their fuck-ups and lack of appreciation for customer loyalty. And yes, we're not changing the world here, I'm no idealist, but we can at least try steering it a bit more in the right direction by being critical and voicing your opinion. If you have Suite and you were as excited about this upcoming release as many were, then this cattle-treatment is a cold shower. If not and you buy Live Suite right now, you will probably get the sensation when Live 10 releases.

And are there fundamentally unfixed problems with Live? Well, apart from still not having dual monitor support... I don't know. Haven't seen L9 up close yet. However Live 8 was a problemchild for a long long time. So giving people only a single week to try out software to see if it's as problematic or not... it's not much decision-time and feels a lot like being pressured into a sale.
a big fat plus one

H20nly
Posts: 15841
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: The Wild West

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by H20nly » Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:59 pm

implication: new users always get the better deal
realization: we were all new users once
solution: create new account

:x

mholloway
Posts: 1574
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:24 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by mholloway » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:04 pm

Evil_Banana wrote:The ignorance is not so much in believing that Live is better than others which is a matter of taste as I said, but rather condoning and encouraging them to be treated this way by supporting them with more money without even complaining about their fuck-ups and lack of appreciation for customer loyalty. And yes, we're not changing the world here, I'm no idealist, but we can at least try steering it a bit more in the right direction by being critical and voicing your opinion. If you have Suite and you were as excited about this upcoming release as many were, then this cattle-treatment is a cold shower. If not and you buy Live Suite right now, you will probably get the sensation when Live 10 releases.
You're able to acknowledge the role taste plays in deciding if a DAW is 'better' (good for you), yet you completely miss the point that maybe -- just maybe -- your personal judgements about what is "wrong" in terms of business practice does not, in fact, represent the judgement of everyone else on this planet.
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

v00d00ppl
Posts: 1630
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:29 am
Location: Fremont, CA
Contact:

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by v00d00ppl » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:05 pm

H20nly wrote:implication: new users always get the better deal
realization: we were all new users once
solution: create new account

:x
Finally someone gets it!
SSL X Desk / Apollo Twin Solo / Sherman Restyler / Ensoniq EPS Classic / Analog Keys / Handsome Audio Zulu

mholloway
Posts: 1574
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 7:24 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon, USA
Contact:

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by mholloway » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:08 pm

Some of you folks are truly a crazy lot of entitled, spoiled whiners. Jesus christ but the way you moan on and on. An expensive piece of software is soon available to upgrade; It will cost 200 bucks or so to get it, if you want it. Buy it or don't, you miserable sacks. "Cattle treatment," are you kidding me? Or maybe you should take a vacation to Syria and get some much needed perspective on your pathetic value system.
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

H20nly
Posts: 15841
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 9:15 pm
Location: The Wild West

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by H20nly » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:27 pm

^ :lol:

stay focused - 1st world problems m, first world problems...

redglass
Posts: 394
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 8:43 am
Location: Berlin
Contact:

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by redglass » Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:58 pm

thecageofconsent wrote:I own Suite 8, with M4L, and my upgrade price is GBP 139

Surely some mistake?
+1, thats my situation too!

LesC
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Dec 07, 2005 5:53 pm

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by LesC » Fri Feb 22, 2013 6:21 pm

Put me on the list of "entitled, spoiled whiners". I bought two licenses to Live 8 Suite + M4L so that my friend and I could use the Share feature. Am I "entitled" to the features I already paid for three years ago? Guess not. After this pricing slap in the face, I wouldnt buy Live 9 Suite for $1 ... well, maybe in 3 years when they've got it "de-bugged".
Les

sounddesignandbrands
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 10:47 am

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by sounddesignandbrands » Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:32 pm

Me = Suite8 (boxed) + M4L user/owner

Ableton! Give me an upgrade AND Push for 500€ instead of 648€ and I'm fracking happy. Hell, make it 599€ and perhaps I'm still considering it (because I feel slutty sometimes)! But 648... Nah. Thx.

Evil_Banana
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 12:55 pm

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Post by Evil_Banana » Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:58 pm

mholloway wrote: You're able to acknowledge the role taste plays in deciding if a DAW is 'better' (good for you), yet you completely miss the point that maybe -- just maybe -- your personal judgements about what is "wrong" in terms of business practice does not, in fact, represent the judgement of everyone else on this planet.
Sorry, but maybe, just maybe it is you who are completely missing the point. I did not claim to speak for "everyone else on the planet". When I talk about the treatment, those are facts that apply and occured to every Suite-owner. Every Suite owner got close to zero communication, got the same special offer, had to wait for the same amount of time and so on. How I feel about that treatment however, is my own opinion. Is my opinion invalid? No, because it determines whether and how much I'll spend on Ableton Products which in itself is proof of good/bad business practise. No business rule or marketing strategy tell what is good or bad business practice, every purchase or pass does. And great business practice even solidifies future sales through customer loyalty and excitement.
Is Ableton gonna go bankrupt? Hell no, not every body feels the same way, especially the non suite owners who are getting a fantastic deal. Are all users complaining? Again, no, non-Suite owners get a great deal, why complain? Are all Suite owners complaining? No of course not, several people don't care about the money, are very excited about the new release or think the treatment is really OK. But several people are not perceiving this launch very well either. And I don't give a damn if you think I'm realistic in my expectations of appreciation, common sense, communication and normal business practice or not. My perception is my own and will determine my purchasing pattern.

You probably consider me to be an entitled spoiled whiner. Well, if you really think Ableton did a fantastic job, write them an E-mail, tell them you really like the price, that the special offer is incredible, that the new feature set is everything you expected from this release, and that their approach to the launch was great, show them your appreciation. Tell em that, write it. And if you can't then you're having just as much doubts as I do even though you may not feel as strongly about it.
mholloway wrote:Or maybe you should take a vacation to Syria and get some much needed perspective on your pathetic value system.
Damn dude, we're discussing Live 9 pricing and you want to bring this in? And you're talking about perspective? Stating the extreme is an easy way to dismiss just about anything.
"Dear landlord, please fix my plumbing" - "dude what are you complaining about? In Syria people don't have plumbing"
See? That easy. Another one?
"I'm feeling sick, have pneumonia" - "stop complaining, children in africa ar dieing from starvation"
"my aunt has cancer" - "oh please, in China entire vilages suffer from cancer due to polution"
You can easily invalidate anything saying someone else has it worse.
Is this a first world problem? Absolutely, no one's dieing here. Doesn't mean that you should agree with whatever else happens.
On the contrary, it's this attitude that turns stuff to shit. Some people that don't care are in charge, they go a little further one step at a time, and people don't complain, they just undergo, getting more used to contributing while being treated as a doormat. It is a general attitude that leads downwards on all different levels, applies just as well to tyrannic governments as medium companies with bad business practices. Third world problems grew in the same way as the crisis grew.
You know the experiment with the 3 monkey's and the ladder, right?

Now, to circle back to put things into perspective, I am NOT putting Ableton's approach at the same level as a religious tyrannic government, AT ALL, far from it!!! You dragged world-problems into this, I'm just telling you it's a shit argument and attitude trying to invalidate people's opinion by dramatizing the lot.
I'm just a little pissed about the treatment, I'm questioning it and voicing my opinion about it. What happens next is up to Ableton. But people saying to just shut up and suck it up, that's just worse. The you're just being a monkey, stop hitting the other monkeys going for the ladder.

Damn, why the hell did I write this? I swear to hell, everytime again I say it's the last time I reply to dismissive devaluating non-argumentation... this time it really was the last time.

Post Reply