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Re: Live 9 Pricing

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:14 am
by freqn
massenmedium wrote:So for the sake of a couple of people on internet forums, well mainly you, making a mountain out of a mole hill, you want them to reduce their prices to levels that cause them to "worry about their profits.".

Disingenuous, deluded, having a bubble?
It's laughable how there's so much effort by some on the forum to discourage holding Ableton accountable as if they are a god. Accountability would serve to benefit both the company and customers. It's a proven business principle. If you don't like this mountain, take your fight to another one.

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:30 am
by merges
^^^

This.

This was a flubbed website launch. It was not QA'd properly. As someone else said, they should have checked their prices before they hit the Launch button. After the years of silence on Live 9, this was not an accidental launch. A lot of material went live. They had to be very confident. A lot of coordination. So, the first issue is they made a mistake with what they launched, I suspect due to QA issues, but who knows… maybe it was intentional to price things this way.

Then, the response was terrible. For some, it's "wait till we launch, then we'll give you a good deal, trust us." For others, it was an instant price hike and a promise to privately take care of business if those customers email support. Shady. Bad marketing, poor response. It's totally taking away from the professionalism I would expect from Ableton.

By the way, I've emailed support and haven't heard back.

I think Live is the sh*t, the most musical DAW, a wonderful achievement, and I also want Ableton to thrive. Part of that is being in a good, accountable relationship with customers. I don't think I'm entitled to anything… I'm just a paying customer and I like their software. I do like to hold people to the standards to which they seem to aspire.

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:31 am
by massenmedium
radialson wrote:It's laughable how there's so much effort by some on the forum to discourage holding Ableton accountable as if they are a god. Accountability would serve to benefit both the company and customers. It's a proven business principle. If you don't like the mountain, climb another one.
Accountable? For what? What harm to others has this brief error caused. Did I miss where Ableton operatives went to your neighbourhood and poured radioactive slime over your cat.

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:34 am
by povaratti
I finally just found the forum again after navigating through that mess that was once a nice website / customer portal.

the bottom line problem here is this is extremely poor Product Launch strategy and communication. Ableton chose to redo the website untested while announcing a new product while announcing a version while trying to automate and simplify the purchase and upgrading interface.

Dumb. Stupid. Ill-conceived. Inept. Visually and Graphically childish. Extremely poor readability. Futura for text ? I could go on and on, but the real tragedy is that the new version 9 and Push and M4L and all the excitement of the launch is washed out in a creamy peachy mess that makes no sense.

I have Suite 8, tons of sound packs, M4L and have been using Live since v3. I've never seen such a mess around a product launch. I have read through 18 pages of this thread, and the best I can figure out is that the website is offering me a custom price right now (if I can stand to look at it without having an epileptic episode), but if I wait until Live 9 actually ships, I will get an even better offer, yet to be offered...but surely will take into account all of the products I own and have bought.

what kind of business and customer strategy is THAT ?

OK...perhaps the dashing CEO would like to sell me a bridge with an Ableton logo on it, too ?

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:36 am
by merges
massenmedium wrote:
radialson wrote:It's laughable how there's so much effort by some on the forum to discourage holding Ableton accountable as if they are a god. Accountability would serve to benefit both the company and customers. It's a proven business principle. If you don't like the mountain, climb another one.
Accountable? For what? What harm to others has this brief error caused. Did I miss where Ableton operatives went to your neighbourhood and poured radioactive slime over your cat.
Accountability is a principle that exists even where no harm has been done. For instance, learning of a company, government, friend, foe, or family member's behavior that is concerning, even if it doesn't affect *you* personally, is an indication of something—a temporary problem, a trend representing an underlying trait, or whatever. And sometimes it makes sense to extrapolate what the meaning of that behavior is, and what it might say about that company, government, friend, foe, or family member…

…in this case, the thing that went down, and the way it went down, may be of concern to people who have or who are about to give a whole bunch of money to this group of people. :D

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:40 am
by freqn
merges wrote:
massenmedium wrote:Accountable? For what? What harm to others has this brief error caused. Did I miss where Ableton operatives went to your neighbourhood and poured radioactive slime over your cat.
Accountability is a principle that exists even where no harm has been done. For instance, learning of a company, government, friend, foe, or family member's behavior that is concerning, even if it doesn't affect *you* personally, is an indication of something—a temporary problem, a trend representing an underlying trait, or whatever. And sometimes it makes sense to extrapolate what the meaning of that behavior is, and what it might say about that company, government, friend, foe, or family member…

…in this case, the thing that went down, and the way it went down, may be of concern to people who have or who are about to give a whole bunch of money to this group of people. :D
^

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:42 am
by massenmedium
merges wrote:For some, it's "wait till we launch, then we'll give you a good deal, trust us."
They said there would be an introductory offer when it launches. There most probably will be. This had nothing to do with these issues.
merges wrote:For others, it was an instant price hike and a promise to privately take care of business if those customers email support.
No price hike. The price changed back to what it should have been. And you're not really a customer if you haven't actually bought it yet, even then they've implied they will look after people. If you did buy it you got the price that was offered, so how could that be 'hiked'.
merges wrote:Shady. Bad marketing, poor response. It's totally taking away from the professionalism I would expect from Ableton.
Cock up.
merges wrote:maybe it was intentional to price things this way.
Don't like these things but :roll:

You don't really think that do you?

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:47 am
by massenmedium
merges wrote:
massenmedium wrote:
radialson wrote:It's laughable how there's so much effort by some on the forum to discourage holding Ableton accountable as if they are a god. Accountability would serve to benefit both the company and customers. It's a proven business principle. If you don't like the mountain, climb another one.
Accountable? For what? What harm to others has this brief error caused. Did I miss where Ableton operatives went to your neighbourhood and poured radioactive slime over your cat.
Accountability is a principle that exists even where no harm has been done. For instance, learning of a company, government, friend, foe, or family member's behavior that is concerning, even if it doesn't affect *you* personally, is an indication of something—a temporary problem, a trend representing an underlying trait, or whatever. And sometimes it makes sense to extrapolate what the meaning of that behavior is, and what it might say about that company, government, friend, foe, or family member…

…in this case, the thing that went down, and the way it went down, may be of concern to people who have or who are about to give a whole bunch of money to this group of people. :D
Rubbish.

The "concerning" "thing that went down" was an embarrassing problem with a new website.

Gosh, what COULD that mean? And what awful strategy lies behind these suspicious clues?

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:52 am
by merges
I don't think it was intentional. I think it was bad planning and poor QA.
Price hikes usually are things that people notice before they buy. We are customers since these are upgrades we're talking about.
The offered "good deal" for Suite upgraders was only mentioned AFTER we brought attention to the disparity in upgrade prices.
Ableton has always been shady about prices—I'm a fan of transparency; free markets work best with open information, while Ableton has always tried to maintain an asymmetrical balance. This is an opinion.
They responded to their own pricing mistake by raising offered upgrade prices immediately, rather than, as some have suggested might have been good, offering a grace period. And along with those raised prices, the "good deal" in the future. Well, the way they responded doesn't necessarily inspire confidence in the future good deal.

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:56 am
by freqn
massenmedium wrote:Rubbish..

Gosh, what COULD that mean? And what awful strategy lies behind these suspicious clues?
Image

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:05 am
by 3dot...
Image

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:09 am
by simpli.cissimus
Worst launch of a software I've ever seen !!!

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:17 am
by estevan carlos benson
WTF???

First completely confusing, misguided, incomplete pricing, followed by "Whoops, wrong prices." Seriously? Do you expect your consumers to put up with this?

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:58 am
by Machinesworking
Ableton_David wrote: The price that you're seeing now does include the Max for Live discount, yes. Remember that there will also be an introductory discount for Suite 8 owners upon the release of Live 9 Suite, which you'll also receive.
Would be nice to know what this was beforehand. First quarter of the year is my slow time work wise and it would be great to know what amount of cash I should save, the upgrade alone, or the upgrade with Push. Something close to the 25% offered people to upgrade to Live 8+ free 9 right now would make sense.

Re: Live 9 Pricing

Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 5:00 am
by aqua_tek
Wow, what a clusterfuck.