Poll : rate Live 9 . Vote now!

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live

How do you rate Live 9 overall in terms of FEATURES

1 star
10
6%
2 stars
22
14%
3 stars
34
22%
4 stars
57
36%
5 stars
35
22%
 
Total votes: 158

timday
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Re: Poll : rate Live 9 . Vote now!

Post by timday » Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:39 pm

I think the big thing, which people aren't mentioning, is M4L integration as part of suite. This is at a guesstimate an extra £150 or so worth of software chucked in. I know it's a bit of a bitch for those of us who already have M4L but for anyone else it's a bargain and I still hold out hope for a cheaper upgrade path.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - a lot of the features people bitch about - event lists, mixer float, assignable LFOs etc are available for free as M4L devices. Just having this as part of suite vastly extends Ableton's capabilities as well as opening it up to massive user tweaking and OSC madness.

I'd still like to be able to look at two tracks at once in the MIDI window though.. although otherwise the new MIDI tools look very good.

Angstrom
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Re: Poll : rate Live 9 . Vote now!

Post by Angstrom » Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:48 pm

I think the big thing, which people aren't mentioning, is M4L integration as part of suite. This is at a guesstimate an extra £150 or so worth of software chucked in. I know it's a bit of a bitch for those of us who already have M4L but for anyone else it's a bargain and I still hold out hope for a cheaper upgrade path.
I think the value of Max4Live depends on the user though eh?
If you weren't intending to buy it, don't really have a use for it, and never open it, then what is it worth?

A lot of people here bought it and then got rid of it because it actually distracted them from making music.
How much is it worth to that kind of user, versus the kind of user newly entranced by making patches.
(even the M4L enthusiasts agree its so deep and complex as to be a distraction from music)
JuanSOLO wrote: I really like M4L and I have enjoyed learning it, but the result has been very little music made. I finally gave it a rest and strated making music again.
.
*


Anyway ... The Value is relative to the user and the usage.

FrankieP
Posts: 152
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Re: Poll : rate Live 9 . Vote now!

Post by FrankieP » Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:57 pm

Angstrom wrote:
I think the big thing, which people aren't mentioning, is M4L integration as part of suite. This is at a guesstimate an extra £150 or so worth of software chucked in. I know it's a bit of a bitch for those of us who already have M4L but for anyone else it's a bargain and I still hold out hope for a cheaper upgrade path.
I think the value of Max4Live depends on the user though eh?
If you weren't intending to buy it, don't really have a use for it, and never open it, then what is it worth?

A lot of people here bought it and then got rid of it because it actually distracted them from making music.
How much is it worth to that kind of user, versus the kind of user newly entranced by making patches.
(even the M4L enthusiasts agree its so deep and complex as to be a distraction from music)
JuanSOLO wrote: I really like M4L and I have enjoyed learning it, but the result has been very little music made. I finally gave it a rest and strated making music again.
.
*


Anyway ... The Value is relative to the user and the usage.
I TOTALLY agree with this. I have no need for M4L. It's just a big distraction.

gp23
Posts: 225
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Location: UK

Re: Poll : rate Live 9 . Vote now!

Post by gp23 » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:02 pm

Based on what we know so far, I can't give it more than 2 stars. I was expecting a lot more from 9. This feels more like an 8.7 upgrade to me. The new features seem nice, but there is nothing there that I couldn't live without, personally. Session automation probably being the most useful, but again, I got by without it for so long that it seems slightly underwhelming now. Hopefully, there are a few more improvements yet to be revealed. I hardly ever use the browser (!) so, although nice, the improvement there is not a big deal for me.

I don't count M4L in my appraisal, because it's still technically an add-on. Adding it into the Suite is undoubtedly a good move though.

As it is, I have no plans to upgrade unless there is an unequivocally irresistible introductory offer. 8)

pencilrocket
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Re: Poll : rate Live 9 . Vote now!

Post by pencilrocket » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:05 pm

If the upgrade price were $40 or so I would give 5 stars.
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Angstrom
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Re: Poll : rate Live 9 . Vote now!

Post by Angstrom » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:08 pm

funken wrote:er, ok, let's hear from some M4L fans as to what they do with it that people might be missing out on.
Hey, don't get me wrong ... You can do lots and lots with M4L , you could make your own vintage reverb, or you could make an algorithmic mixing and composition engine game that's connected to a video camera motion detecting ants in the Amazon.
It's fantastically powerful and can do an incredible amount

But it depends if you actually wanted to do an incredible amount of programming. Or an incredible amount of music.

Sure you can load presets, there is a library of preset patches ... And if you make electronic buffer shuffling music you will be in luck, because everybody who does persevere with programming Max is interested in that sort of music and sound. Stochastic music is big with the people who express their creativity through making programs.

It's a choice.
Some people express their creativity via VisualStudio and writing elegant C++ code . That's also great, and admirable. But not for me. Not when I open my music program, I ant to make music, quickly, easily, intuitively as possible.
Last edited by Angstrom on Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

simmerdown
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Re: Poll : rate Live 9 . Vote now!

Post by simmerdown » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:17 pm

why not rate the end of the Mayan Calendar, because like 9, it is not actually here yet

sporkles
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Re: Poll : rate Live 9 . Vote now!

Post by sporkles » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:31 pm

Don't forget that there are people out there who enjoy programming MfL devices, and that, thanks to their effort, those of us who've held off on buying MfL won't have to start programming at all - we can simply use the collection of devices that's included in Suite 9. I mean, when you're looking at the list of L9 features, it's easy to think "uh... that's it?" - but when you take all the Max for Live devices you get with Suite into account, it's a different ballgame. That LFO alone is going to be great.

On top of that, we're also getting the Orchestral Instruments and Session Drums collections... It's not too shabby at all.

I really want to get in on the beta testing this time. Did you hear that, Ableton? Sign me up! :wink:

I gave it 3 stars, because I find that they've neglected (or neglected to mention) a couple of the no-brainer requests. That whole zooming issue and detachable sections, for instance.

crystalmsc
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Re: Poll : rate Live 9 . Vote now!

Post by crystalmsc » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:24 pm

Five stars for me, just for the integration with Push, which is something that I've been waiting for too long. I forgive why they took so long for this release. Also I'm waiting to get the M4L which is based on Max 6 without any sign. But they mentioned that now, it is based on Max 6. To me, the wait is totally worth it. Plus all the other updates are mostly interesting as well. My wish is just for a stable release and some improvements of the arrangement view, matching the good looking interface of other DAWs.
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Poster
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Re: Poll : rate Live 9 . Vote now!

Post by Poster » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:35 pm

funken wrote:er, ok, let's hear from some M4L fans as to what they do with it that people might be missing out on.
What you'll be missing out on, as a non builder, is an ever growing and maturing collection of devices that make things possible in Live that wouldn't be possible otherwise..
What I've seen from the L9 collection is that things have progressed a lot regarding appearance, usability and function..

I think that MFL got a bad rep among non builders because from it's initial release till today MFL was/is a mess; badly organised, inconsistent GUI design, weird balance in types of offered devices, etc..

But L9 looks very promising as the stock library grows and matures..

I bought MFL about 2 years ago, not because I wanted to build myself, but as an entrance fee to get access to unique devices that blend well with Live and its native devices..
That experience is slowly getting better and better and from what I've seen from L9 it is now really up to a level where I can say you really get a lot of bang for the buck..
As a non builder that is..

Tone Deft
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Re: Poll : rate Live 9 . Vote now!

Post by Tone Deft » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:43 pm

too soon. would you really ask someone that's never used a piece of software for their opinion on it?

I'm still holding out for some big compelling new amazing feature. they re-wrote some effects and added audio to midi. yay. that took years to pull off.
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synnack
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Re: Poll : rate Live 9 . Vote now!

Post by synnack » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:43 pm

FrankieP wrote:
Angstrom wrote:
I think the big thing, which people aren't mentioning, is M4L integration as part of suite. This is at a guesstimate an extra £150 or so worth of software chucked in. I know it's a bit of a bitch for those of us who already have M4L but for anyone else it's a bargain and I still hold out hope for a cheaper upgrade path.
I think the value of Max4Live depends on the user though eh?
If you weren't intending to buy it, don't really have a use for it, and never open it, then what is it worth?

A lot of people here bought it and then got rid of it because it actually distracted them from making music.
How much is it worth to that kind of user, versus the kind of user newly entranced by making patches.
(even the M4L enthusiasts agree its so deep and complex as to be a distraction from music)
JuanSOLO wrote: I really like M4L and I have enjoyed learning it, but the result has been very little music made. I finally gave it a rest and strated making music again.
.
*


Anyway ... The Value is relative to the user and the usage.
I TOTALLY agree with this. I have no need for M4L. It's just a big distraction.
So a free convolution reverb is a big distraction from making music? I don't get it. I know you're talking about the whole "make your own" thing but all the built in devices don't require any of that. They are purely about making music. And now you get all those effects and instruments free in the Suite. That is pure value and not a distraction at all.
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Tone Deft
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Re: Poll : rate Live 9 . Vote now!

Post by Tone Deft » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:45 pm

synnack wrote:So a free convolution reverb is a big distraction from making music? I don't get it. I know you're talking about the whole "make your own" thing but all the built in devices don't require any of that. They are purely about making music. And now you get all those effects and instruments free in the Suite. That is pure value and not a distraction at all.
agreed. I don't know why people assume they have to roll their own.
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At people who I'd much rather kick in the eye?
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Angstrom
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Re: Poll : rate Live 9 . Vote now!

Post by Angstrom » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:50 pm

Would you say that all musical styles could enjoy M4L library devices equally, or would you say that M4L devices favour a certain kind of music?

It's my impression that M4L devices favour people interested in producing a certain type of electronic music and can make good use of the Stochastic sequencers, buffer shuffling, randomisation of parameters, simple "808" style drum voice generators, etc.

At the moment I'm producing music that is somewhere between the punk surf music of Dick Dale, the film scores of Morricone and Budd, and some rough garage punk like the Stooges. Consequently I have found nothing in the library of devices (eg at max4live.com) that appeals to me, or the kind of music I am interested in making.

I understand that most people here, and the users of live are interested in making electronic music so a library simple retro electronic drums and buffer shufflers will be both welcome and appreciated. This inclusion of M4L will be great news for a large section of Live users.
however, personally the library offers me nothing more than is offered by a simple VST.

Btw - I use Liquidsonics Reverberate as my convo reverb

I am glad for you if you enjoy some aspect of Max for live. That's great for you.
I have tried it, and tried to incorporate it many times. I am still trying. I'm still not into it. Sorry I can't conform to what you want me to like.

If You like it, that's good ... for you.
Congrats on getting a good new thing in your DAW, which you like.
Last edited by Angstrom on Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

synnack
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Re: Poll : rate Live 9 . Vote now!

Post by synnack » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:58 pm

Angstrom wrote:Would you say that all musical styles could enjoy M4L library devices equally, or would you say that M4L devices favour a certain kind of music.

It's my impression that M4L devices favour people interested in producing a certain type of electronic music and can make good use of the Stochastic sequencers, buffer shuffling, randomisation of parameters, etc.

At the moment I'm producing music that is somewhere between the punk surf music of Dick Dale, the film scores of Morricone and Budd, and some rough garage punk like the Stooges. Consequently I have found nothing in the library of devices (eg at max4live.com) that appeals to me, or the kind of music I am interested in making.

I understand that most people here, and the users of live are interested in making electronic music so a library simple retro electronic drums and buffer shufflers will be both welcome and appreciated, however, personally the library offers me nothing over a simple VST.

Btw - I use Liquidsonics Reverberate as my convo reverb
I think thats a good point if it is of little value to you, but I don't see how that makes it a distraction to making music. It may not apply to your music, but for a majority of users it is tremendously valuable to have something like a Convolution reverb that is part of the Ableton Live suite/workflow. You know you want to attach that LFO to some Dick Dale guitar! :)
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