Poll : rate Live 9 . Vote now!

[Poster]

Would you say that all musical styles could enjoy M4L library devices equally, or would you say that M4L devices favour a certain kind of music?

It's my impression that M4L devices favour people interested in producing a certain type of electronic music and can make good use of the Stochastic sequencers, buffer shuffling, randomisation of parameters, simple "808" style drum voice generators, etc.

At the moment I'm producing music that is somewhere between the punk surf music of Dick Dale, the film scores of Morricone and Budd, and some rough garage punk like the Stooges. Consequently I have found nothing in the library of devices (eg at max4live.com) that appeals to me, or the kind of music I am interested in making.

I understand that most people here, and the users of live are interested in making electronic music so a library simple retro electronic drums and buffer shufflers will be both welcome and appreciated. This inclusion of M4L will be great news for a large section of Live users.
however, personally the library offers me nothing more than is offered by a simple VST.

Btw - I use Liquidsonics Reverberate as my convo reverb

I am glad for you if you enjoy some aspect of Max for live. That's great for you.
I have tried it, and tried to incorporate it many times. I am still trying. I'm still not into it. Sorry I can't conform to what you want me to like.

If You like it, that's good ... for you.
Congrats on getting a good new thing in your DAW, which you like.

I don't understand your ongoing war on MFL?
Don't like it, don't use it, but please don't qualify it as a DJRandom add-on because you obviously don't have clue about what you're talking about..
Sure those buffershufflerandomwhatnot devices get a lot of attention, but that's all from a marketing perspective, because that is what the herd wants..
If you dig deep enough you'll find little gems that might not look sexy but are oh so usefull..

[Angstrom]

It's not an ongoing war, I often say that for people who like it and need it it's a good and powerful tool. A I did many times in this thread.
But that for me personally it's not for me.

Then people say but you can make whatever you want?
And I must reply to them, so I say - "but it's so convoluted and demanding an experience that it pulls me out of actual music making."

Then people say - so use presets?
And I say - "I've not found any I need, or any that are better than the Vsts I have"

And I finish by saying - "if max for live is good for you, I am really and truly glad for you, but it is not for me, for the reasons stated above"
. It's not a "war". I am glad for the people who like it, and can use it, and I hope that people can understand why it is not for me. It does not work as I would like, I want to make modular tools which suit me - but I cannot enjoy the modular workflow it provides. Once again, I am glad for people who can enjoy this powerful tool and who enjoy the workflow implementation.

the end.

[synnack]

Would you say that all musical styles could enjoy M4L library devices equally, or would you say that M4L devices favour a certain kind of music?

It's my impression that M4L devices favour people interested in producing a certain type of electronic music and can make good use of the Stochastic sequencers, buffer shuffling, randomisation of parameters, simple "808" style drum voice generators, etc.

At the moment I'm producing music that is somewhere between the punk surf music of Dick Dale, the film scores of Morricone and Budd, and some rough garage punk like the Stooges. Consequently I have found nothing in the library of devices (eg at max4live.com) that appeals to me, or the kind of music I am interested in making.

I understand that most people here, and the users of live are interested in making electronic music so a library simple retro electronic drums and buffer shufflers will be both welcome and appreciated. This inclusion of M4L will be great news for a large section of Live users.
however, personally the library offers me nothing more than is offered by a simple VST.

Btw - I use Liquidsonics Reverberate as my convo reverb

I am glad for you if you enjoy some aspect of Max for live. That's great for you.
I have tried it, and tried to incorporate it many times. I am still trying. I'm still not into it. Sorry I can't conform to what you want me to like.

If You like it, that's good ... for you.
Congrats on getting a good new thing in your DAW, which you like.

I don't understand your ongoing war on MFL?
Don't like it, don't use it, but please don't qualify it as a DJRandom add-on because you obviously don't have clue about what you're talking about..
Sure those buffershufflerandomwhatnot devices get a lot of attention, but that's all from a marketing perspective, because that is what the herd wants..
If you dig deep enough you'll find little gems that might not look sexy but are oh so usefull..

word up. I do think trying to build all your own effects and instruments is a huge time suck and can be a distraction from making music. That is a fair point. Building is for people who can't realize their own idea with things that already exist in many ways. It's not for everyone. But the factory content is getting really good. So that argument is getting less and less relevant.

Also, remember the thousands of threads about a "free max for live runtime" and "want LFO on anything"? Live 9 Suite users basically get both now! That is freaking HUGE.

[pencilrocket]

Would you say that all musical styles could enjoy M4L library devices equally, or would you say that M4L devices favour a certain kind of music?

M4L is for engineers who do visual programming and make Live control lighting, sound, interactive devices and etc on stage. Artists use them. M4L's strength is here. It's not there just to create sine wave or delay. If you just want synth and effect you can buy far more good ones for the price.

[synnack]

Would you say that all musical styles could enjoy M4L library devices equally, or would you say that M4L devices favour a certain kind of music?

M4L is for engineers who do visual programming and make Live control lighting, sound, interactive devices and etc on stage. Artists use them. M4L's strength is here. It's not there just to create sine wave or delay. If you just want synth and effect you can buy far more good ones for the price.

No, this is inaccurate. Are you saying only engineers who do visual programming need a convolution reverb? or want to attach and LFO to anything?

The correct statement is that "building your own devices is for engineers who...". You are greatly devaluing the factory content. You can devalue what's on Maxforlive.com. That's fine. It's a playground for people learning and sharing. It's a user community. But there is some great stuff in the latest factory content that doesn't require in any way that you are an "engineer" or "artist".

Look at all the free synths and effects on ableton.com that are even outside of the factory content. You really need to somehow be an engineer to want and use that? What you get with Max for Live, even if you never once create anything, is a freaking steal. And now it's free for Suite users in Live 9...

Now i'm repeating myself.

[condra]

I think Ableton knew the new feature set would be underwhelming to many and I reckon that is part of the reason we get MFL chucked in with Suite.

There's not much for DJs, though the new Session View automation recording will be handy for some live fuckery.

There are some very popular user requests that haven't been addressed such as:
Scroll Wheel Zoom
Dual Monitor Support
Midi Recording Latency improvements
PDC

I'm also surprised and disappointed not to see a cool new instrument such as a semi modular hybrid Wavetable synth.

There's a lot to like in Live 9 if you're a remixer though.

[pencilrocket]

M4L is for engineers who do visual programming and make Live control lighting, sound, interactive devices and etc on stage. Artists use them. M4L's strength is here. It's not there just to create sine wave or delay. If you just want synth and effect you can buy far more good ones for the price.

No, this is inaccurate. Are you saying only engineers who do visual programming need a convolution reverb? or want to attach and LFO to anything?

The correct statement is that "building your own devices is for engineers who...". You are greatly devaluing the factory content. You can devalue what's on Maxforlive.com. That's fine. It's a playground for people learning and sharing. It's a user community. But there is some great stuff in the latest factory content that doesn't require in any way that you are an "engineer" or "artist".

Look at all the free synths and effects on ableton.com that are even outside of the factory content. You really need to somehow be an engineer to want and use that? What you get with Max for Live, even if you never once create anything, is a freaking steal. And now it's free for Suite users in Live 9...

Now i'm repeating myself.

Why inaccurate? I already wrote M4L's strength. Artitsts need to have M4L licese to use custom patches which is made by engineers for the stage setup. They just use someone's work. Nothing different with M4L noob who uses factory presets. But, they don't own the license just to generate oscilator. For that purpose, you can buy far more nice plugin for the price of M4L. Do you want to learn visual programing? Get M4L. Nothing wrong with this purchasing motivation.

[ilya.soloviev]

I won't rate. Because i never used it.

[sporkles]

I won't rate. Because i never used it.

It's hardly been a week since it was announced, and already you brazenly declare that you never used it?!?

At least give it a chance first!

[nathannn]

this release is something i would have expected from ableton if it was released during their normal development cycle, but after 3 years and, noticing them hire new people,i really expected more.
like other people have mentioned besides session view automation, nothing really new is being brought to the table. i can already record myself humming into a mic or play guitar and transfer that to midi with melodyne (this always involves some editing and i dont expect it to change within live. )

for me, max for live is not something i want to use. i would say already, i have put in over 30 hours trying to learn m4l and, beyond making simple audio effects i cant come to grips with it and, i cant ever figure out if what i want to do is even possible with m4l.

in 3 years we have seen another company start from scratch and add everything that was available within live plus more than even this release offers.
its really starting to look like the people that left ableton for bitwig were the real back bone of the company.

when it comes to "push" i really dont view that as part of the release, the release to me is the software it self. push does seem interesting, but push also seems to be only for people making electronic music. when it comes to playing music live i cant put down my guitar to smash a couple of buttons. i feel like ableton would have realized by now a marked exist for a foot controller that will control live.

[mihai]

well although it doesn't look to be chock-full of features, if it's a core rewrite and will be more responsive then it's already getting 5 stars from me.

[timday]

Well OK since I started the M4L thing I guess I should chip in my bit.

I hardly ever program with M4l. I got it assuming I would, but somehow I never have the time.

I use M4L all the time though. I find that every time I want to do something in Live that it doesn't have the capability for, someone has built a M4L device. Step sequencers, interface bobbins, all kinds of stuff not to mention what seems an infinite supply of weird-ass synths and effects. So I don't regret getting it for an instant.

I think the key thing is though that it opens up Live into an extendable piece of software in the way that say Logic or Pro Tools aren't. It turns it from a piece of software that you can only do certain things with into something you can pretty much do anything with as long as either you have some programming skill or, crucially, someone else does and has posted their device on the web.

If you don't like it I guess it may not be for you (although I don't do buffer shuffling stochastic stuff either and, well, as above I like it fine) but I don't see how including it in 9 suite is anything less than huge.

[ilya.soloviev]

5 stars for audio to midi feature! If its really works so great as in promo video, its just aweeeesome!

[OzWozEre]

in 3 years we have seen another company start from scratch and add everything that was available within live plus more than even this release offers.

That's because they were developers at Ableton and ran off with IP+Know-How. I don't care what folks say, that's a dick move.

Just because Ableton is being nice about it -- because they feel they have to due to some vague "Hacker's Code of Ethics" -- doesn't mean I need to support it, or defend it, especially when it's used as ammunition as some kinda dig towards Ableton for being "slow".

Recreating something that's already been created isn't that hard, sorry.

[Rationalizer]

It's really promising, however some of the essential features are still missing (namely dual monitor support, Eucon support) so 4 stars for now.