Apple forgets about musicians

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Pasha
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Apple forgets about musicians

Post by Pasha » Fri Nov 02, 2012 6:39 pm

Just another rant.
This slipped through..
New iMacs do not have FW800 ports.
Only USB 3.0 this means that

1) The audio industry has to adapt to new standard (in theory faster but still less reliable in sustained mode)
2) All Audio cards that we have on 'old' FW800 Standard will not work
3) Mac Mini and Macbook Pro are the only alternative with FW800 ports
4) Little by little Apple will care less about the dead standard
5) The Thunderbird to Fw800 dongle has not been thought for anything else than data transfer. Audio does not seem to work flawlessly.

What do you think?
I am curious about your comments/feelings on this
Last edited by Pasha on Sat Nov 03, 2012 6:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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störgeräusche
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Re: Apple forgets about serious musicians

Post by störgeräusche » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:05 pm

well I'm happy to have, on my PC
firewire
usb 2.0
usb 3.0
:evil:
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synnack
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Re: Apple forgets about serious musicians

Post by synnack » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:11 pm

I think this battle was lost a long time ago and at this point Apple is just following behind. The moment cam corders and cameras went USB and not Firewire on new models FW was dead.

I think there is merit to the idea that Apple is not as focused on "pro" users (Mac Pro hasn't been updated, MBP are less upgradable) but I don't' think firewire is really relevant to that discussion anymore. Bring on the USB.
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H20nly
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Re: Apple forgets about serious musicians

Post by H20nly » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:21 pm

i bought an iMac in September. it has firewire, which is a good thing.. because my mixer doesn't have a USB port.

still, i agree with the notion that camera manufacturers are what is driving the market. audio interface manufacturers aren't driving anything when it comes to standards. do they even want to change?

the lack of that firewire port would have been a game changer for me, but how long has firewire been around? USB just wins in the end. it was the VHS of peripherals while FW is the Betamax... a little upgrade here and there and USB becomes the DVD... and now USB is the Blu-ray. the ability to adapt looking forward while still looking back is huge. Firewire just stopped. :(

OzWozEre
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Re: Apple forgets about serious musicians

Post by OzWozEre » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:36 pm

As computing power becomes more and more ubiquitous companies like Apple have to find various ways to differentiate their product line.

Removing certain "pro" features from the iMac line would be one way to do so.

Much like they did with the Macbook lne vs. the Macbook Pros -- certain ports we're missing which pissed off the A/V crowd.

IIRC, iMacs are supposed to address the general purpose / "I just need to get on the internet" market, and not the:

"Hey, I just got a iMac which is so much cheaper than the Macbooks and Mac pros! Oh wait, why doesn't it have...."
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kent_sandvik
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Re: Apple forgets about serious musicians

Post by kent_sandvik » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:45 pm

USB 3.0 has superior bandwidth compared with FW800. Actually USB 2.0 is plentiful for most production studios where we don't record a whole ensemble at the same time.

rikhyray
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Re: Apple forgets about serious musicians

Post by rikhyray » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:46 pm

Pasha wrote:Just another rant.
This slipped through..
New iMacs do not have FW800 ports.
Only USB 3.0 this means that

1) The audio industry has to adapt to new standard (in theory faster but still less reliable in sustained mode)
2) All Audio cards that we have on 'old' FW800 Standard will not work
3) Mac Mini and Macbook Pro are the only alternative with FW800 ports
4) Little by little Apple will care less about the dead standard
5) The Thunderbird to Fw800 dongle has not been thought for anything else than data transfer. Audio does not seem to work flawlessly.

What do you think?
I am curious about your comments/feelings on this
Yesterday talked to German distributor of few major soundcard brands and he told me that they tested the Thundirbird - FW cables, zero issues.
BTW. wrong title, Apple surely does not care all that much about people on budget. Serious? Does serious carpenter buy the cheapest chisel or glue?
Alonso does not drive Fiat. When you go for entry level models from any company do not expect pro features.
Last edited by rikhyray on Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Apple forgets about serious musicians

Post by memes_33 » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:19 pm

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beats me
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Re: Apple forgets about serious musicians

Post by beats me » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:28 pm

Apple does this kind of shit all the time, but it’s not about abandoning the pro. It’s about killing off old tech before it’s actually dead and before the market is ready to embrace the new tech.

A lot of USB audio interfaces have been on par with FW interfaces for a couple years now. Can’t say I didn’t see this coming. Computers (and shit you attach to them) aren’t like stereos that you expect to last you a decade. If you want a system that is going to last a decade then you need to never upgrade the software you have in it now. And truth be told, you could probably be just as productive with it.

steko
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Re: Apple forgets about serious musicians

Post by steko » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:32 pm

Rahad Jackson wrote:My Awesome Mix Tape #6

Donnie
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Re: Apple forgets about serious musicians

Post by Donnie » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:44 pm

I ditched Firewire years ago. Personally, I think its garbage and its a shame that it ever needed to become a 'standard' to begin with (for a time, out of necessity). Now that USB interfaces are up to par and working just as well (if not better in some circumstances) people should run from firewire as fast as they can. It's shit, and should only be used if you have to.

IMO.

moonpie
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Re: Apple forgets about serious musicians

Post by moonpie » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:05 pm

I stopped being concerned with the firewire thing a while ago (I have a firewire interface). Firewire vs USB 2.0, firewire wins, but not in any tangible way for audio production unless youre tracking a hundred mics at a time.

What concerns me about Apple now is the loss of replacement, repair. Not being able to upgrade/change RAM, battery etc. I just think it encourages junk culture. When keeping equipment stable and in good condition is important for any studio or musician.

The thing is, I absolutely love Snow Leopard/osx. And its the software, not necessarily the hardware that keeps me. Windows is going the wrong direction with 8, when 7, by all accounts was pretty good.

Linux... I really like. But of course, how long till itll be a real contender to justify ports for it is anybody's guess. Valve are moving to support Linux with Steam, thinking Win 8 is going to kill sales, so if there was a gaming community there, it might get more traction. Then if google dips its toe into OS development for PCs...

If I had money, Id be buying up used Macs. Because I think, even with i5s/i7s, 1-2 years ago is the best theyll ever be for music production. Okay - theyll get more powerful but... I think its give/take from here on out.

H20nly
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Re: Apple forgets about serious musicians

Post by H20nly » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:22 pm

Donnie wrote:I ditched Firewire years ago. Personally, I think its garbage and its a shame that it ever needed to become a 'standard' to begin with (for a time, out of necessity). Now that USB interfaces are up to par and working just as well (if not better in some circumstances) people should run from firewire as fast as they can. It's shit, and should only be used if you have to.

IMO.
why? it works.

speed was almost matched with USB 2.0... so that argument is down to bits..
the thing that i like the best about firewire... you can tell which way it needs to be plugged in!!!
you can never quite be sure with USB. it's a crap shoot. maybe it's this way. maybe its that way. when you're trying to reach around in the dark and find a port it can get annoying. hell, i have an Xbox 360 on the bottom shelf of my TV stand. when the controller runs out of battery, i go to plug in the USB cable (into the front of the device mind you) and it goes like this:
let me try this way
no
let me try that way
no,
what?
let me try this way again
no,
huh?
let me try that way again
no,
GODDAMMIT~!! :x

Donnie
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Re: Apple forgets about serious musicians

Post by Donnie » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:46 pm

H20nly wrote:
Donnie wrote:I ditched Firewire years ago. Personally, I think its garbage and its a shame that it ever needed to become a 'standard' to begin with (for a time, out of necessity). Now that USB interfaces are up to par and working just as well (if not better in some circumstances) people should run from firewire as fast as they can. It's shit, and should only be used if you have to.

IMO.
why? it works.

speed was almost matched with USB 2.0... so that argument is down to bits..
the thing that i like the best about firewire... you can tell which way it needs to be plugged in!!!
you can never quite be sure with USB. it's a crap shoot. maybe it's this way. maybe its that way. when you're trying to reach around in the dark and find a port it can get annoying. hell, i have an Xbox 360 on the bottom shelf of my TV stand. when the controller runs out of battery, i go to plug in the USB cable (into the front of the device mind you) and it goes like this:
let me try this way
no
let me try that way
no,
what?
let me try this way again
no,
huh?
let me try that way again
no,
GODDAMMIT~!! :x
Although I agree with the USB orientation annoyance, its a better connector overall compared to Firewire. Firewire is jiggly and comes out of the port too easily. It just doesn't feel as locked in, as secure, as USB. This can also lead to problems like shorting out your board as wear occurs.

That's only one part of the puzzle for me though. I find the entire IEEE 1394 standard to be flaky and problematic overall. Driver issues and the 'need' for a TI chipset for example, also the occasional problem with FW400 devices acting weird with FW800 ports depending on the cables used (which, for some reason, I have only seen happen with Macs. Very strange considering Apple created the standard. However that may just be an empirical point of view.)

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Re: Apple forgets about serious musicians

Post by Donnie » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:56 pm

Don't get me wrong, it had its place, and filled a void for a period of time. There are plenty of reasons why even Steve Jobs had been signing its death warrant for nearly 4 years now though. Times have changed...get whatever life you can out of exiting FW devices and ditch them as soon as you can! :idea:

I do have to admit that Apples method of forced upgrading is my biggest problem with them though. My iPad is only 2 years old and already too obsolete for an OS update? Oh, just buy a new device? Total BS! This is the main reason why I don't typically buy apple, you pay twice as much for a device with half the lifespan :lol:

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