Apple forgets about musicians

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
doghouse
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Re: Apple forgets about musicians

Post by doghouse » Mon Nov 05, 2012 5:33 pm

supamonsta wrote:WTF with apple macbooks and external displays????? IT JUST DOESN'T WORK
Your mileage may vary. I connected an old Acer 19" LCD monitor to my MBP and it has worked fine out from day one.

rikhyray
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Re: Apple forgets about musicians

Post by rikhyray » Mon Nov 05, 2012 6:42 pm

doghouse wrote:
supamonsta wrote:WTF with apple macbooks and external displays????? IT JUST DOESN'T WORK
Your mileage may vary. I connected an old Acer 19" LCD monitor to my MBP and it has worked fine out from day one.
I used various MBPs with SL, Lion,ML + VGA & HDMI with plenty of different displays, beamers ( I still do VJ occasionally) and only once had a problem. It was some lousy no-name display.
Dont waste money on cheap cables and adaptors- these are most often source of problems.

supamonsta
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Re: Apple forgets about musicians

Post by supamonsta » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:15 pm

About the external display problem:

I tried the macbook with 2 different displays and cable sets that work like a charm with my other macbooks,

and it does the same blinking. Lots of threads about this problem on the web here and there.

I did not contact apple support for this, think I should? How good is apple support? I don't wanna reinstall all my setup just to find out the problem is still there...


cheers

H20nly
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Re: Apple forgets about musicians

Post by H20nly » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:39 pm

^ based on what you've put in this thread, it's got to be a problem with the macbook you're attempting to do it from. if the cables are known good and the monitor(s) is known good... and other macbooks work with this known good equipment... then there is only one place left where the source of the trouble can lie. so yeah... time to talk to a "genius".

supamonsta
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Re: Apple forgets about musicians

Post by supamonsta » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:58 pm

ok thanks I'll do that
gotta find a first genius to help me find a genius, but I may manage :mrgreen:

Earwax69
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Re: Apple forgets about musicians

Post by Earwax69 » Tue Nov 06, 2012 3:20 am

Long time ago, staying on the safe side meant to get a mac. Now staying on the safe side is to build your own PC.

rikhyray
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Re: Apple forgets about musicians

Post by rikhyray » Tue Nov 06, 2012 6:35 am

supamonsta wrote:About the external display problem:

I tried the macbook with 2 different displays and cable sets that work like a charm with my other macbooks,

and it does the same blinking. Lots of threads about this problem on the web here and there.

I did not contact apple support for this, think I should? How good is apple support? I don't wanna reinstall all my setup just to find out the problem is still there...


cheers
nothing like some sweet hardware failure. I got brand new, latest MBP , 2 generations younger , not just free but plus 150€ refund of remaining Apple Care. Best of luck.

Pasha
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Re: Apple forgets about musicians

Post by Pasha » Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:55 am

Machinesworking wrote:
Pasha wrote: and especially USB 3 with USB 2 device and drivers has problems. Glitches, pops, clicks. Since day 1. OS X problem.
This isn't that surprising, as with any update to a plug in standard there should be updates to the audio drivers to ensure compatibility.
Some companies will do this in a timely manor some will not.


Look here : http://createdigitalmusic.com/2012/06/u ... operating/
It seems that 10.8.2 did not fix it.
If audio drivers are not co-operating it's most likely the audio driver developers fault, but they will of course be more than happy to blame Apple, Microsoft, the moon, their girlfriend, or you for the issue. :x

2. The TB to FW Dongle is a good idea but again, google and I have found that not all devices/DAW can use it because it is reported to the system as TB anyway.
Again, this seems like an audio driver issue rather than a OS/hardware compatibility issue. If some drivers work and others do not, it points IMO more towards software than hardware, and older drivers are the likely issue.

Also, IMO Lion is like Leopard, which was a mediocre Apple OS compared to Snow Leopard. The direction to move in is towards Mountain Lion, not back to an OS that's two versions old, and at some point will be more likely to have issues with drivers, adaptors and audio hardware. I have Snow Leopard on the 07 laptop and Mountain Lion on the 09 Mac Pro, no issues with either OS. :)
Thanks, that makes me less anxious about my next iMac. They are not here so wait is necessary and maybe in the meantime the audio drivers will be updated from the lazy audio companies!
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Sage
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Re: Apple forgets about musicians

Post by Sage » Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:44 pm

Wasn't there a huge fuss over Final Cut X Pro? Not too sure of the details myself, but definitely a telling sign of Apple's lack of interest in the professional market going forward.

skatr2
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Re: Apple forgets about musicians

Post by skatr2 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:14 am

My big issue with mac is more toward their hardware components. They are making the perma-switch to new tech like SSD, over-valued retina displays, and thunderbolt tech that nobody supports yet. but the price is going way higher than is worth it and the storage capacity is getting worse in a software environment that isn't getting smaller. The new 13" MBP costs about 600 more than mine cost 3 years ago for a base model and you get significantly less.

To get the ultimate version of komplete, they needed to put it on an external hard drive and forced you to store it locally. Ableton and music software isn't getting any smaller, yet the computer industry is more focused on SSDs and storing things in the cloud. I can't blame them since most of them make money the more people move to cloud computing. But this doesn't speak of thought toward people who utilize hardware storage or have real professional aspirations with their computers.

To top this off, updated operating systems every year make it complicated for us to keep up for fear our stuff doesn't work on the latest version. Upgrading to Lion alone was a nightmare that seems to have made my mid 2009 mbp act like it was 10 years old. (i don't dare touch ML).

I get things are changing, but the cost of their mbp's shouldn't have gone up. Especially at the likelihood that those of us who actually USE are computers to their potential, will have to add peripherals to them just to meet our storage needs.

Ben_Binary
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Re: Apple forgets about musicians

Post by Ben_Binary » Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:50 am

Is LogiPro 8 still not supported in LION OSX 10.6 and up?
I was real unhappy with Apple when I couldnt open Logic-8 on my new mac-mini.

I found some dodgy workarounds on youtube but wasnt convinced ... so I swapped Logic with Reaper.
soundcloud Live 9 & Push / Reaper / Octatrack / Rytm / MicroBrute / Nord Modular G1 & G2 / Waldorf Rack Attack / Juno 60 / Monotron & Duo / SeratoDJ / Komplete 9 / OhmForce

Pasha
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Re: Apple forgets about musicians

Post by Pasha » Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:32 am

skatr2 wrote:My big issue with mac is more toward their hardware components. They are making the perma-switch to new tech like SSD, over-valued retina displays, and thunderbolt tech that nobody supports yet. but the price is going way higher than is worth it and the storage capacity is getting worse in a software environment that isn't getting smaller. The new 13" MBP costs about 600 more than mine cost 3 years ago for a base model and you get significantly less.

To get the ultimate version of komplete, they needed to put it on an external hard drive and forced you to store it locally. Ableton and music software isn't getting any smaller, yet the computer industry is more focused on SSDs and storing things in the cloud. I can't blame them since most of them make money the more people move to cloud computing. But this doesn't speak of thought toward people who utilize hardware storage or have real professional aspirations with their computers.

To top this off, updated operating systems every year make it complicated for us to keep up for fear our stuff doesn't work on the latest version. Upgrading to Lion alone was a nightmare that seems to have made my mid 2009 mbp act like it was 10 years old. (i don't dare touch ML).

I get things are changing, but the cost of their mbp's shouldn't have gone up. Especially at the likelihood that those of us who actually USE are computers to their potential, will have to add peripherals to them just to meet our storage needs.
Well put. It is a balance between mass market and semipro/pro users. Under Tim Cook it seems apple is innovating on the margin side of their supply chain and less on the consumer side. Killing Fw800 and USB audio support is like killing an entire ecosystem and industry. Standards has to be respected. Putting 5400 rpm hard drive in new iMacs it is a bold move. We make it thin so a 7200 rpm won't fit anymore, so that we spend for components is less and less. In past years Apple was keeping the same price of the previous version and adding incremental features that were available at the time. Today they push on margins by actually reducing what we get and adding new features that come at a price. I fear in a few years Apple will be so margin driven to do things like this more and more with unnecessary quantum leaps along the way.
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steff3
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Re: Apple forgets about musicians

Post by steff3 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:21 am

[quote="Pasha"]Just another rant.
This slipped through..
New iMacs do not have FW800 ports.
Only USB 3.0 this means that

1) The audio industry has to adapt to new standard (in theory faster but still less reliable in sustained mode)
2) All Audio cards that we have on 'old' FW800 Standard will not work
3) Mac Mini and Macbook Pro are the only alternative with FW800 ports
4) Little by little Apple will care less about the dead standard
5) The Thunderbird to Fw800 dongle has not been thought for anything else than data transfer. Audio does not seem to work flawlessly.

What do you think?
I am curious about your comments/feelings on this[/quote]

What I think? That you have no clue and should get the facts right in the first place.
Audio over FW is data transfer ... point. And it is reported to work flawlessly with UAD, MHLabs, and others. Of course there might be issues ... as there are with different FW chips and as they occurred in the past. Support of the manufacturers has to fix this.
Building computers means to move on. It would be convenient if the new iMacs had FW but does not seem to be a show stopper in general.

best

pencilrocket
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Re: Apple forgets about musicians

Post by pencilrocket » Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:25 pm

iMac has never been sold as prosumer device. You can't blame apple for it....
Image

romegio
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Re: Apple forgets about musicians

Post by romegio » Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:47 pm

I am with you. I nearly chose to go with a pc as an alternative but then saw what the new macmini quad core had to offer with four usb3 and firewire 800. I have had laptops for the most part and don't need the mobility that I used to need as an electronic musician...Now I just work from home! I have two firewire audio cards and just had to buy a 400 to 800 cable.
good luck

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