SAMPLER: sample speeds up as pitch rises?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
adamdegraff
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SAMPLER: sample speeds up as pitch rises?

Post by adamdegraff » Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:08 am

I dragged a sound into sampler and I'm totally digging it. (Yeah, I'm new to SAMPLER.) Anyway, as I increase pitch, my sample plays faster. Is there a way to get it to play at the same speed regardless of pitch? Or is that how it works?

Thanks

antarktika
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Re: SAMPLER: sample speeds up as pitch rises?

Post by antarktika » Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:31 am

That's how it works.

This might help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=p ... i9TFTZFZGs

glitchrock-buddha
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Re: SAMPLER: sample speeds up as pitch rises?

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:21 am

For it to change pitch without changing the sample playback speed, it would need a timestretch mode. Many of us have been requesting it since it first came out, but apparently their top of the line sampler does not need timestretch.
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oddstep
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Re: SAMPLER: sample speeds up as pitch rises?

Post by oddstep » Sun Nov 11, 2012 12:23 pm

You can get a Samplers sample playback time to be constant by making the sample loop really short and modulating sample start with a positive saw lfo, the lfo rate is the duration of the sample. Its not perfect though. I'd like live 9 to include smoother timestretching in Sampler.

massenmedium
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Re: SAMPLER: sample speeds up as pitch rises?

Post by massenmedium » Sun Nov 11, 2012 1:02 pm

You can also use a clip mapped to a key range instead of Sampler. Monophonic only and with some very different limitations / features but it's an option that's there.

esp81
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Re: SAMPLER: sample speeds up as pitch rises?

Post by esp81 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:35 pm

That's how most samplers work unless they are using a time stretching effect.

Willyum
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Re: SAMPLER: sample speeds up as pitch rises?

Post by Willyum » Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:43 pm

adamdegraff wrote:Or is that how it works?
Ableton's Sampler is one of the only pay-for samplers on the market that doesn't have pitch shift/time stretch. It makes absolutely no sense!

glitchrock-buddha
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Re: SAMPLER: sample speeds up as pitch rises?

Post by glitchrock-buddha » Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:57 pm

Willyum wrote:
adamdegraff wrote:Or is that how it works?
Ableton's Sampler is one of the only pay-for samplers on the market that doesn't have pitch shift/time stretch. It makes absolutely no sense!
Yes. Even $10 iPad samplers have timestretch quite often.
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Sage
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Re: SAMPLER: sample speeds up as pitch rises?

Post by Sage » Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:22 pm

Plus Ableton is all about timestretching audio!

rob_salad
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Re: SAMPLER: sample speeds up as pitch rises?

Post by rob_salad » Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:45 am

For me, this is the final nail in the coffin.

The key attraction for using ableton is being able to do everything in the box, but it's almost like they DO NOT CARE about sampling. It's near IMPOSSIBLE without weird workarounds to create sampler instruments (including their samples) that aren't tied to a single project. If you try to save the instruments outside the directory, the zipped xml (yes, all ableton presets are just shitty zipped xml files) uses absolute paths so you can't transport your entire library anywhere.

On top of that, you can't add previews for your own sounds because apparently ableton just wants you to glue together other people sample packs and doesn't care about yours (internally, they are just .ogg files with a certain directory structure... I tried replicating the structure but the code doesn't even *check* for the existence of a preview file on user samples).

I have a fairly common workflow and desire - I tend to group together a large set of presets and sounds and want them 'on hand' when inspired, in order to pull a track together. Ableton seems to rub you wrong EVERY STEP OF THE WAY to make this happen. Their browser is dodgy and hard to work with, and clearly favours you buying the latest crappy add-ons instead of building your own library of sounds - you can't even delete the default library without a lot of effort.

And now, I google something that I think should be totally obvious and simple, basic time stretched sampling, and apparently it's not even there.

The thing is, I *love* abletons speed, and flexibility. it's like the 'power user' tool for audio. But there's just too much wrong with it, too many hacked together features and buggy, poorly written constraints. I run a company that makes apps and it makes me seriously wonder whether anybody has actually done any UX studies on how people are making music, and how they could have a better workflow, or whether they just try to work out what seems to sell (3rd party pre-made shortcut libraries) and try to hammer those into people.

In summary, today is the day I finally uninstall Ableton Live and move on to software actually designed for people making music.

fishmonkey
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Re: SAMPLER: sample speeds up as pitch rises?

Post by fishmonkey » Thu Dec 12, 2013 7:04 am

so what apps do you make?

biestyboy
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Re: SAMPLER: sample speeds up as pitch rises?

Post by biestyboy » Thu Dec 12, 2013 8:44 am

rob_salad wrote:For me, this is the final nail in the coffin.

The key attraction for using ableton is being able to do everything in the box, but it's almost like they DO NOT CARE about sampling. It's near IMPOSSIBLE without weird workarounds to create sampler instruments (including their samples) that aren't tied to a single project. If you try to save the instruments outside the directory, the zipped xml (yes, all ableton presets are just shitty zipped xml files) uses absolute paths so you can't transport your entire library anywhere.

On top of that, you can't add previews for your own sounds because apparently ableton just wants you to glue together other people sample packs and doesn't care about yours (internally, they are just .ogg files with a certain directory structure... I tried replicating the structure but the code doesn't even *check* for the existence of a preview file on user samples).

I have a fairly common workflow and desire - I tend to group together a large set of presets and sounds and want them 'on hand' when inspired, in order to pull a track together. Ableton seems to rub you wrong EVERY STEP OF THE WAY to make this happen. Their browser is dodgy and hard to work with, and clearly favours you buying the latest crappy add-ons instead of building your own library of sounds - you can't even delete the default library without a lot of effort.

And now, I google something that I think should be totally obvious and simple, basic time stretched sampling, and apparently it's not even there.

The thing is, I *love* abletons speed, and flexibility. it's like the 'power user' tool for audio. But there's just too much wrong with it, too many hacked together features and buggy, poorly written constraints. I run a company that makes apps and it makes me seriously wonder whether anybody has actually done any UX studies on how people are making music, and how they could have a better workflow, or whether they just try to work out what seems to sell (3rd party pre-made shortcut libraries) and try to hammer those into people.

In summary, today is the day I finally uninstall Ableton Live and move on to software actually designed for people making music.
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3dot...
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Re: SAMPLER: sample speeds up as pitch rises?

Post by 3dot... » Fri Dec 13, 2013 2:34 pm

rob_salad wrote:
In summary, today is the day I finally uninstall Ableton Live and move on to software actually designed for people making music.
thanks for the laughs.. and good luck in your future endeavors ...
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TomViolenz
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Re: SAMPLER: sample speeds up as pitch rises?

Post by TomViolenz » Fri Dec 13, 2013 3:43 pm

I do sympathize with the complaint though.
The parts about Sampler that work are really good and well intigrated, so much so that I would love to use it exclusivly. But the shortcomings mentioned in this thread make that very difficult :(

oddstep
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Re: SAMPLER: sample speeds up as pitch rises?

Post by oddstep » Fri Dec 13, 2013 5:09 pm

I semi sympathise. It would be good to have a button called timestretch on sampler that made duration independent of pitch... however you can do it yourself by using an lfo to move a window through the audio file at a predetermined rate and anyone witb suite 9 also has access to granulator.. which does smoother timestretching. So yes, the absence of a button is irksome and should be fixed... if only to free up an lfo. But it isn't impossible to achieve with the existing tools. I think that the absence of any api control over sample start and loop length are way more frustrating restrictions.

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