Is Ableton really for Electronic Musicians?

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Lazos
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Re: Is Ableton really for Electronic Musicians?

Post by Lazos » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:31 am

Interesting comments. I find them especially interesting because I've pretty much ditched the computer for playing live (I primarily play bowed and plucked strings and hand percussion). But I still absolutely love Live for it's workflow and ability to do quite well with creating more "traditional" multi-track audio recording productions as well as just about any other genre out there.

Regarding the idea of what defines a musician, I'll throw my humble opinion out there: I categorise turntableism and creative production work on a computer as "music making". As in, it's an act of making music, and at the core, a creative act. The metronome "composition" example I would call more creative sound experimentation (but for some that's splitting hairs).

For me, I differentiate between the above music making and "consummate musicianship" as exhibited by Ross Daly (a master of a number of Mediterranean and Near East styles) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX_j59byg34 The difference is an intimate command of and a spiritual connection to the finer subtleties of playing a musical instrument (including the human voice). And while I love electronic sounds just as much as the next modern musician/music maker, (I really, really do), The fact is, the finest subtleties are still the sole province of people having spent years on an instrument that has the capability to express these finer nuances. Kontakt is really really cool and powerful, so is Operator and a quality midi controller or two turntables with real vinyl. But the fact is, these tools (while excelling at what they do) just can't reach that same level of dynamics and subtlety. And that's okay. I know my narrative has holes such as "What about the brilliant keyboardist playing a keyboard midi controller in an expressive fashion", but nevertheless, I think you all get what I mean.

crumhorn
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Re: Is Ableton really for Electronic Musicians?

Post by crumhorn » Mon Nov 19, 2012 1:14 pm

How do you define Electronic Music?

Is it any music that uses electronics to create (rather than to capture) sound?

I suspect most people think of music that "sounds" electronic. Eg using a sampled piano in a realistic way would not be considered as electronic music (what if it was a Fender Rhodes with FX).

A lot of people will think of electronically produced beats and various dance music genres.

Where am I going with this? ... Trying to pin down the definition of concepts like Art, Artist, Music, Musician, etc just emphasizes the ambiguity of human language. whatever definition you arrive at will exclude a lot examples that should really be included.

This makes for fascinating endless debates, but ultimately goes nowhere. My own definition is that art is whatever people label as art and an artist is any person who claims to be, or is considered to be, an artist.

Is Ableton really for Electronic Musicians? Answer - it can be used to produce any type of music you can imagine within the limitations of the program. Of course there are certain specific things that it does not do well (as with any musical instrument). It's a bit like asking "Is a trombone really for Jazz Musicians?".
"The banjo is the perfect instrument for the antisocial."

(Allow me to plug my guitar scale visualiser thingy - www.fretlearner.com)

Lazos
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Re: Is Ableton really for Electronic Musicians?

Post by Lazos » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:36 pm

crumhorn wrote:How do you define Electronic Music?

... Trying to pin down the definition of concepts like Art, Artist, Music, Musician, etc just emphasizes the ambiguity of human language. whatever definition you arrive at will exclude a lot examples that should really be included.

This makes for fascinating endless debates, but ultimately goes nowhere. My own definition is that art is whatever people label as art and an artist is any person who claims to be, or is considered to be, an artist..

It's true; each person's definition is really only meaningful to themselves. I'll have disagree that anyone who claims to be an artist IS an artist (I realise that is your personal definition, and so works for you)
crumhorn wrote:Is Ableton really for Electronic Musicians? Answer - it can be used to produce any type of music you can imagine within the limitations of the program. Of course there are certain specific things that it does not do well (as with any musical instrument). It's a bit like asking "Is a trombone really for Jazz Musicians?".
This is spot on.

Punky921
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Re: Is Ableton really for Electronic Musicians?

Post by Punky921 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:43 pm

I record bands with Ableton Live Suite 8, and I also create weird, cold, synthy pieces for modern dance.

arachnaut
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Re: Is Ableton really for Electronic Musicians?

Post by arachnaut » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:52 pm

I think the Portastudio was the best tool for Electronic Music:

Image

beatmunga
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Re: Is Ableton really for Electronic Musicians?

Post by beatmunga » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:58 pm

Nice pic arachnaut. Is that from your past?

Love the modular Casiotone!
mendeldrive wrote:NOBODY designs their own sounds... There is ZERO point in reinventing the wheel.

arachnaut
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Re: Is Ableton really for Electronic Musicians?

Post by arachnaut » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:08 pm

beatmunga wrote:Nice pic arachnaut. Is that from your past?

Love the modular Casiotone!
From the early 1980's BM (Before MIDI).

Here are some AM shots (early 90's) of the best DAW (Dr.T's XOR) on the Atari and some real instrument racks:

Image Image

login
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Re: Is Ableton really for Electronic Musicians?

Post by login » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:17 pm

infernal.machine wrote:
SpeedKing wrote:
login wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCp7bL-AWvw

Tell me HE is not a musician
I'm assuming you're joking, and you wouldn't consider that musicianship either? I'd consider it 'interesting', and that's as far as it would go.
I would call it a headache.
How do you call something like that made by probably the most important composer of the XXth century?

If it was made by a no name it would not event be taken seriously.

But well Ligeti didn't take seriously a lot of things, search for Le Grand machabre

beatmunga
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Re: Is Ableton really for Electronic Musicians?

Post by beatmunga » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:19 pm

Arachnaut:

Ataris... now they had rock solid timing!

Ensoniq stuff was so good too wasn't it? Always wanted a....

hang on, hijacking thread, sorry!

Anyway you young 'uns. That is where electronic music comes from.

And it involves terrible curtains and a lot of love.
mendeldrive wrote:NOBODY designs their own sounds... There is ZERO point in reinventing the wheel.

arachnaut
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Re: Is Ableton really for Electronic Musicians?

Post by arachnaut » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:20 pm

However, let's look at Live (32-bit). I just crashed it loading 2 Reaktor ensembles yesterday:

Image

But I can run 8 instances in Sonar:

Image

These files are about 2 GB in size so they are useless in a 32-bit situation.

I used to use Live a lot, but I now use 64-bit apps mostly.

arachnaut
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Re: Is Ableton really for Electronic Musicians?

Post by arachnaut » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:21 pm

beatmunga wrote:Arachnaut:

Ataris... now they had rock solid timing!

Ensoniq stuff was so good too wasn't it? Always wanted a....

hang on, hijacking thread, sorry!

Anyway you young 'uns. That is where electronic music comes from.

And it involves terrible curtains and a lot of love.

Curtains! Foiled again.

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