Send off to be mixed. What do I do with the return tracks?

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distaudio
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Send off to be mixed. What do I do with the return tracks?

Post by distaudio » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:51 am

Hi,

I'm in the final stages of recording and I'm looking to send my tracks off to be mixed by a friend who also uses Live.

I have sent him a track template session of a song to open in his version of Live and he has run into no end of trouble so he has requested that I bounce the tracks down (taking off any drastic compression) so he can mix it in a new live session.

I have a question on what is it that I do with the return tracks? I have alot of them that aren't just there to add space to my rough mix but are creative points in the song and add to it. I might also have a couple of tracks that I am sending to that return.

So my question is, discounting the fact that my friend has Live. How would I bounce my session down with returns and not lose the creative element of those return tracks?
Has anyone run into this before and how did you remedy it?

Thanks

jellycaster
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Re: Send off to be mixed. What do I do with the return tracks?

Post by jellycaster » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:31 am

you have two options really, the one you choose probably depends on the type of flexibility you want to give the guy mixing your track.

the first is to include a mix of the return in the main stems.

for example, if you have a dry snare track going through a return with some reverb, you would bounce one snare stem, which had the reverb return on it. if you solo the snare track in live, it will by default include the send. you'd have to mute the send seperately otherwise. So, just solo snare track, and bounce.

This is what I have done in the past when sending stems off.

If this doesn’t work for you, your other option is to mute the returns while bouncing the main stems, then bounce a separate stem for each of your returns.

Tarekith
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Re: Send off to be mixed. What do I do with the return tracks?

Post by Tarekith » Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:27 pm

In Live's render dialogue is you select "All Tracks" instead of master, it will render every track as a seperate audio file, including your Returns.

jellycaster
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Re: Send off to be mixed. What do I do with the return tracks?

Post by jellycaster » Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:43 pm

^i wish i knew this 6 months ago!

i don't suppose it includes the sub-tracks in drum racks though? I generally do seperate stems for my kicks, snares, etc.

A more general question for you, tarekith - when you are mastering from stems, how many do you prefer to work with and which individual elements do you prefer to seperate and grouped together?

mholloway
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Re: Send off to be mixed. What do I do with the return tracks?

Post by mholloway » Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:11 pm

I wish there was a way to batch export every channel, but *with* all Return channel content recorded into the individual channels, where applicable. Basically it would be the equivalent of solo'ing and exporting every individual channel, so that any FX on the master channel -- which would include the Returns, since they pass to the Master -- appear on the individual channels.
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

Tarekith
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Re: Send off to be mixed. What do I do with the return tracks?

Post by Tarekith » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:22 pm

mholloway wrote:I wish there was a way to batch export every channel, but *with* all Return channel content recorded into the individual channels, where applicable. Basically it would be the equivalent of solo'ing and exporting every individual channel, so that any FX on the master channel -- which would include the Returns, since they pass to the Master -- appear on the individual channels.
Ditto, would save me much headache when mixing other people's work.

Jelly - I think it does actually export the group channel, and the individual channels in that group too.

distaudio
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Re: Send off to be mixed. What do I do with the return tracks?

Post by distaudio » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:54 pm

Having each tracks returns signal show as an individual track would certainly create a lot of track.

Either way I go I think soloing each track and rendering the returns for each is going to create a lot of work for myself.

mholloway
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Re: Send off to be mixed. What do I do with the return tracks?

Post by mholloway » Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:58 pm

distaudio wrote:Having each tracks returns signal show as an individual track would certainly create a lot of track.

Either way I go I think soloing each track and rendering the returns for each is going to create a lot of work for myself.
You only need to solo and render if you want to render the master output, e.g. the solo'd channel + return FX and/or anything on the master bus. If you just do the batch export, you'll get everything rendered at once -- but that includes, as you say, the returns as indiviual channels, and yes, the track count will be high as a result, but at least that is creating work for your friend, not you ;)
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

Tarekith
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Re: Send off to be mixed. What do I do with the return tracks?

Post by Tarekith » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:13 am

It doesn't do render seperate tracks for each audio track's return, it just renders one single stereo wav for the returns summed.

distaudio
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Re: Send off to be mixed. What do I do with the return tracks?

Post by distaudio » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:27 am

Yeh, and I wasnt really after a summed return track.

I will just have to do it the manual slow way I suppose

mholloway
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Re: Send off to be mixed. What do I do with the return tracks?

Post by mholloway » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:22 am

Tarekith wrote:It doesn't do render seperate tracks for each audio track's return, it just renders one single stereo wav for the returns summed.
Err, mine does... Export > "all tracks" results in a render for each individual Return channel. I see no options for getting a sum of the returns. Am I misunderstanding what you are referring to here?

EDIT: I read your post wrong. You're saying a sum for each return, of any tracks sending to it. Just to clarify, my post wasn't meant to suggest that you get a sum of each send, but of each return. So we agree. Yay.

Perhaps a silly semantic point, but I think this is why we differentiate between "send" and "return". E.g. live doesn't render separate tracks for each audio track's Sends, but rather a sum of each Return channel. For Clarity! :0


-M
my industrial music made with Ableton Live (as DEAD WHEN I FOUND HER): https://deadwhenifoundher.bandcamp.com/
my dark jazz / noir music made with Ableton Live: https://michaelarthurholloway.bandcamp. ... guilt-noir

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