Windows 8 Touchscreens

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
Moosebear
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Re: Windows 8 Touchscreens

Post by Moosebear » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:13 pm

yur2die4 wrote:I've got my eyes on the Yoga 2 Pro. I can't find anything about flat out performance and audio handling. :/ I want to be able to load up instruments quickly while the 'set' is playing, without any issues via Push AND Maschine. I'm just wondering if it'd handle that without any unsavory surprises haha
Unsavory surprises are part of the joys of all computers, lol! Keeping them to a minimum is the challenge...

I also have my eye on the yoga 2, or the newer Yoga thinkpad. Purportedly tougher, better keyboard, it has "only" 1080p resolution, which is plenty for a 12.5" screen IMHO, the yoga 2's resolution might be overkill/ battery-suck.

PLUS, if I read correctly lower-res makes touchscreen work better?

Also, I can't figure out where to order the 512GB option in either yoga.

yur2die4
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Re: Windows 8 Touchscreens

Post by yur2die4 » Mon Nov 25, 2013 4:47 pm

The 512 is on the Lenovo site.

The reason why the Yoga 2 looks so alluring is because it seems so small, yet can do standard computing. But the resolution, although nice in theory, seems like it could also affect performance overall.

In price/performance comparisons, I looked more specifically at performance and the MacBook Air seems to outperform by quite a bit. But a. It's not touchscreen b. Every time they update their OS it's like a shitstorm of hesitant users.

I like that the yoga can become a pretty convincing tablet. I hate the idea of a touch 'Laptop' because the L shape is silly to me.

I'll have to hold out..... Wait for the next generation.

(Also interesting is, at Best Buy I was playing with Yoga 2's air gesture control. It's a nice novelty, but needs more flexible programming)

TomViolenz
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Re: Windows 8 Touchscreens

Post by TomViolenz » Mon Nov 25, 2013 7:36 pm

I would like it if laptops would gain touch screens. We would still have them as our normal laptop, but if it's useful, I just control something by touching on the screen.
Even with a pen could be ok, for drawing envelopes and such.
In the end touch will always be at advantage for controling multiple things at the same time, while the mouse is best for very precise work, and the pen on screen best for creative envelope work. Building music software adepted to these paradigms should be possible!

yur2die4
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Re: Windows 8 Touchscreens

Post by yur2die4 » Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:00 pm

I hate to keep bumping this...

I tried a YouTube search and didn't really find anything on how Live might handle different Types of clip launch (trigger, gate, loop). EDIT: Also waveform scrubbing depending on different quantization settings?? I know you can click with a mouse onto the lower half of a waveform to get that section to play based on the quantization settings.

I think it'd be interesting if someone did a video series of the strengths and limitations of touch on Live.

It seems that image line really has an edge in this department. If more people showed interest in it, and made specific observations and gripes, perhaps the Ableton team could narrow their strategy for future implementation :)

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Re: Windows 8 Touchscreens

Post by yur2die4 » Wed Dec 25, 2013 3:27 pm

I now have a touch screen.

With a few little tweaks it is kind of fun to get lost in a direct interaction with the screen and your hands haha.

The absolutemousemode option fixes dials zooming and scrolling.

I had to turn off press and hold for right-click in the pen/touch control panel options.

The biggest issues are, of course that many apps are designed only for one pointer at any given moment.

But also, this behavior I've noticed where you can't 'trigger' a lot of things until As you lift your finger off the screen. This also happens in Caustic. It might have to do with me having double click turned on????

I would like to see if there is a way to change this touch behavior.

beats me
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Re: Windows 8 Touchscreens

Post by beats me » Thu Dec 26, 2013 11:07 pm

beats me wrote:As a shill for Steve Jobs’ Apple he stated that just slapping a touch screen over a desktop application doesn’t make for a usability dream come true, but either through wishful thinking or hatred of Apple plenty of people didn’t want to believe that. Well, now you have your Windows 8 on a touch screen and I’m sure Steve’s statement will be proven correct.

It doesn't just work. :x

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Re: Windows 8 Touchscreens

Post by yur2die4 » Fri Dec 27, 2013 1:33 am

I believe that is bull haha.

There is always potential for anything as long as there is a dream.

Jobs himself had ideas which people initially thought were ridiculous. The iphone is an example. And it took them a lot of development to make it function properly.

Yes, there is a clear division between things that do and do not work on touch screen. And people seem to imagine being forced to use touch on every single windows software.

I think that taking the first steps is what is necessary to find some standards with various developers.

For now, it sounds like FL Studio is in the lead in this one department. But there is sooooo much potential for touch and music.

Today I was triggering parts of the waveform and parts of the Arrangement View. In Clip View, if you have for instance a sample of a few guitar or piano notes/chords, you can simply turn quantized off, and touch different parts to make the clip trigger those sounds from that location. It's like a very restrictive form of iPad's Samplr app :)

beats me
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Re: Windows 8 Touchscreens

Post by beats me » Fri Dec 27, 2013 2:11 am

For non standard use software Microsoft essentially slapped lipstick on the old touch screen pig that existed even before the iPhone. Actually that's not Microsoft's fault other than pimping it like all software is going to work amazingly well on a touch screen. I stand by Jobs' assertion that for a great and full use experience the software either needs to be made for a touch screen or the standard software needs to be optimized for it. That needs to happen on the software developer's end and you'll probably start seeing things like "optimized for touch screen" in the list of system software requirements. But until that happens you probably shouldn't convince yourself the software is working much better than it was on touch screens in 2005.

Just sayin' :P

yur2die4
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Re: Windows 8 Touchscreens

Post by yur2die4 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:52 am

Fun tip I just discovered from tinkering with settings.

Lately I'm on this whole triggering random parts of audio clips thing. I have done the touch thing before and wanted to test the Clip Start position mapping with an infinite rotary. And also compare it with the various scrubbing options. And doing all of this trying different launch quantizations.

I found that the Clip Start can get really effed if the rotary is handled wrong.

Then I went back to touching, and it did as I've experienced before. I default my Fades to Off and to make this more favorable I went with turning them on this time (was an ambient sound, pops totally killed the vibe).


Anyway, the waveform's responsiveness was average but felt a little slow still. So I turned on the RAM button, only expecting it to improve moderately. But instead it made it extremely reactive. This is also possible with the mouse. It is kind of fun dragging back and forth along the bottom half of the waveform haha (and having my handy Push to mess with warp mode and pitch)

So yeah. RAM

doc holiday
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Re: Windows 8 Touchscreens

Post by doc holiday » Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:35 pm

beats me wrote:
beats me wrote:As a shill for Steve Jobs’ Apple he stated that just slapping a touch screen over a desktop application doesn’t make for a usability dream come true, but either through wishful thinking or hatred of Apple plenty of people didn’t want to believe that. Well, now you have your Windows 8 on a touch screen and I’m sure Steve’s statement will be proven correct.

It doesn't just work. :x

That's why you evolve the UI to accommodate modernization of hardware. I don't see why it would be hard to pop up a fader when you touch something like a send for accurate control. The potential is there.

When I realized I could build a 16GB haswell i7 with SSD for less then $700 I decided to take a turn to the dark side. It's kinda nice not seeing live bump up above 15%.
It's not like live ever comes out of full screen mode and all of my hardware just worked, with my sound card actually working better.

I just popped a touch screen display on my desktop, 21" screen is actually accommodating. push is also there for control I don't expect to give up the mouse but simply being able to easily switch around from devices to tracks and clips is a nice touch.

on a side note just unboxed two mac pros at the office.

options and evolution. sometimes it takes hardware to bump the software and I think the future looks bright regarding technology these days.

yur2die4
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Re: Windows 8 Touchscreens

Post by yur2die4 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:19 pm

I took my touching waveforms a step further and thre a Looper into the channel.

Soooo fun!

I can switch between like 6 different clips of 'stuff'. Bground elements made from running the tail end of a crash, vocal nonsense triggered randomly. A few guitar licks going forward and backward.

Also dummy clips, which happen to be even more powerful now with actual automation instead of just modulation.

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