Ableton 9: No Comping Features

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
hmj
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Re: Ableton 9: No Comping Features

Post by hmj » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:41 am

Angstrom wrote:I watched that video, Gerhard speaks a lot of sense in it, to refine what is there. It makes more flow and less work.

At that time they were combining Compressor one and Compressor two, and they made the compressor which we have now in Live 8. It's just as powerful, but also quicker to use because it's one thing.

I think the strategy he outlines in that video is excellent, and nobody at the time said "where is my compressor 1, or 2 ? You have taken something away!!!"
Everybody understood that the new compressor was both the old compressors together.

Or, apparently, almost everybody understood, eh?
My point was that the philosophy is good but flawed to a certain extent. There's a reason you use Live and not garage band correct? Live has advanced features that make your day easier. There are still highly useful features that are pretty much industry standard that are missing in this program, they would make all our lives easier.

Are you going to come back to the forum when tab to transients is added and complain that you don't like it? Will you be mad at Ableton for adding PDC? Really trolls, think about that next time you go argue against solid, useful, bread and butter features that would make YOUR workflow easier.

We're here to improve the program. How anyone could argue against that is baffling.

Tone Deft
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Re: Ableton 9: No Comping Features

Post by Tone Deft » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:47 am

hmj wrote:We're here to improve the program. How anyone could argue against that is baffling.
it's not what you're doing, it's how you're doing it. your writing style sucks. nobody likes reading someone's whining. ultimately it only works against your cause and people will just ignore you.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

hmj
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Re: Ableton 9: No Comping Features

Post by hmj » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:58 am

Tone Deft wrote:
hmj wrote:We're here to improve the program. How anyone could argue against that is baffling.
it's not what you're doing, it's how you're doing it. your writing style sucks. nobody likes reading someone's whining. ultimately it only works against your cause and people will just ignore you.
That's an opinion, I respect it.

What's not cool is the lack of unity here.

No matter how it's said there's always the emotional troll or two that come to EVERY thread downplaying request. It's no wonder Ableton DOESN'T implement user request, they read these threads and see no coherence. This is why Avid listens to post and professionals, that's the only place where they can get rational feedback.

The community should be putting pressure on Ableton to improve the program - that's where all energy needs to go to make Live the best DAW on the market. Anything else is a waste of time.

Do people even know what they're saying when they troll request? Is there thought behind disagreeing with something like track comping?

Disagreeing with a feature like that makes absolutely no sense. The goal is to make Ableton the best DAW, that's an important feature to get to that point. It pertains to everyone who uses the program. With lanes (how you comp) you can store midi takes, not just audio etc. You're talking about an arrange version of the clip view. How do you think Ableton came up clips in the first place? It will make everyones workflow better. Those who troll these things make no sense at all.

Just don't wonder why Ableton doesn't take the forum seriously. With no unity on the community side, request will never be taken seriously.

Tone Deft
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Re: Ableton 9: No Comping Features

Post by Tone Deft » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:16 am

hmj wrote:Just don't wonder why Ableton doesn't take the forum seriously.
I don't wonder at all, it's perfectly clear to me why they seem to ignore the forum. if the Abes were to speak up there are posters that would be quite rude in the discussion, I've seen it.

I completely agree on the lack of unity. there's a group here that believes making very loud, obnoxious, vitriolic attacks on Ableton are a proper form of communication. the rest of us disagree and don't appreciate the negative vibes the angry posters are bringing. they know about PDC FOR FUCKS SAKE!! they know about comping, they know about dual monitors, it's incredibly naive to think they don't know.

anyway, I appreciate you allowing me to discuss your posting style in this thread. we should really stick to talking about Live and not each other. thanks for your patience.
oddstep wrote:I agree with all of this. I'm just bored of writing "its music, just listen and trust your judgement"

hmj
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Re: Ableton 9: No Comping Features

Post by hmj » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:18 am

Tone Deft wrote:
hmj wrote:Just don't wonder why Ableton doesn't take the forum seriously.
I don't wonder at all, it's perfectly clear to me why they seem to ignore the forum. if the Abes were to speak up there are posters that would be quite rude in the discussion, I've seen it.

I completely agree on the lack of unity. there's a group here that believes making very loud, obnoxious, vitriolic attacks on Ableton are a proper form of communication. the rest of us disagree and don't appreciate the negative vibes the angry posters are bringing. they know about PDC FOR FUCKS SAKE!! they know about comping, they know about dual monitors, it's incredibly naive to think they don't know.

anyway, I appreciate you allowing me to discuss your posting style in this thread. we should really stick to talking about Live and not each other. thanks for your patience.
Word

Willyum
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Re: Ableton 9: No Comping Features

Post by Willyum » Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:27 am

Tone Deft wrote:it's perfectly clear to me why they seem to ignore the forum. if the Abes were to speak up there are posters that would be quite rude in the discussion, I've seen it.
Not to be taking sides or anything... I do my fair share of Both Complimenting and Complaining!
I really have to disagree with you here... two things, if Abes communicated with it's Forum more and spoke about difficulties they are trying to overcome, people would not feel like they are just screaming into the wind and might be more understanding
Second thing is... This is a business... I don't know if you got your stuff for free but I did not. I have been an ongoing customer since about version 2-2.5 and I have paid a lot of money for my product.

Now the next update is upon us and for me, someone who has already paid hundreds and hundreds of dollars for my years of updates Plus Suite, not counting the dedicated products like apc40.... And my update price for suite is $300... $850 if I also want Push... This is with NO updates to any of the instruments, minimal updates to a few devices and a few other tweaks (Plus audio to MIDI which I am looking forward to).... But it will not be for free, or even for cheap... That is a Premium price for the small amount of updates that were added. So based on that, and that the last upgrade was 3 years ago where we spent the entire first year with a buggy product, it is completely understandable why many people are pissed about not having some basic needs met that every other DAW is providing.

If this was a free product I would understand your point on this matter. But this is a premium priced DAW... This is not about favors, this is customer satisfaction for a fee.

deva
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Re: Ableton 9: No Comping Features

Post by deva » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:06 am

hmj wrote:
Tone Deft wrote: it's not what you're doing, it's how you're doing it. your writing style sucks. nobody likes reading someone's whining. ultimately it only works against your cause and people will just ignore you.
That's an opinion, I respect it.

What's not cool is the lack of unity here.

No matter how it's said there's always the emotional troll or two that come to EVERY thread downplaying request. It's no wonder Ableton DOESN'T implement user request, they read these threads and see no coherence. This is why Avid listens to post and professionals, that's the only place where they can get rational feedback.

The community should be putting pressure on Ableton to improve the program - that's where all energy needs to go to make Live the best DAW on the market. Anything else is a waste of time.

Do people even know what they're saying when they troll request? Is there thought behind disagreeing with something like track comping?

Disagreeing with a feature like that makes absolutely no sense. The goal is to make Ableton the best DAW, that's an important feature to get to that point. It pertains to everyone who uses the program. With lanes (how you comp) you can store midi takes, not just audio etc. You're talking about an arrange version of the clip view. How do you think Ableton came up clips in the first place? It will make everyones workflow better. Those who troll these things make no sense at all.

Just don't wonder why Ableton doesn't take the forum seriously. With no unity on the community side, request will never be taken seriously.

You are making some assumptions about the Ableton community and development in general. You are never going to find unity because users have rather divergent interests and the features they would like to see implemented are also different. Just because you state "the goal" doesn't mean everyone agrees. Ableton Live will never be the best DAW and plenty of people don't care if it is. It is unlikely to ever have notation and I would prefer Ableton not put development time towards that function. Some people need it so Live will never be their best DAW.

Live is a mature product at this point. I think it is unrealistic to expect speedy development. It is what it is and is in the phase of slow evolutionary development.

There are also lots of users who have little to no interest in spending their time crusading to make Live "the best". Myself, I am rather satisfied with Live and it fulfills my needs. Could X or Y function be improved? Sure, but it is a tool that gets the job done for me.

You sound like you are crusading for human rights or something. Ableton are just people doing something they enjoy. I'm sure they make a sincere effort to improve Live and if I were a main Live programmer I would not frequent this forum cause there is just too much heaviness and seriousness. The developers owe you and me nothing. They should enjoy themselves and add the tools they are interested in.

oddstep
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Re: Ableton 9: No Comping Features

Post by oddstep » Mon Dec 03, 2012 8:41 am

Totally right. Ableton aren't on a mission to make the 'only DAW you will ever use', they are making Live. Let them get on with it and if your needs don't match their ambitions move on. Nothing wrong with making feature requests, like comping or multi monitor support, but to state that the company is ignoring all of its customers and is making an amaterish product is false.

pepezabala
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Re: Ableton 9: No Comping Features

Post by pepezabala » Mon Dec 03, 2012 9:27 am

Comp?

I don't even comb my hair.

I record multiple takes in session clips. or - when its not more than lets say 5 or 6 takes - in various tracks in a group channel. Voices end up being choirs like that - nice!

If pro tools provides a faster workflow, well, then record your multiple takes there.

ian_halsall
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Re: Ableton 9: No Comping Features

Post by ian_halsall » Mon Dec 03, 2012 11:46 am

I would send a mail to support and follow up with a phone call.

I don't think they really read this forum that much.

It's probably too much work - so difficult to make any sense of it.

I am guilty of this too - posting photographs of dogs and making stupid comments.

Occasional good advice.

If you really want something added to the program I would put together a well thought out spec of how you think it should/could work and how it would benefit x% of the users and send it in an email.

nathannn
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Re: Ableton 9: No Comping Features

Post by nathannn » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:27 pm

Upright wrote:
nathannn wrote:Comping in other daws annoys me. After few recording passes you are left with a large portion of screen real estate filled . You guys want that?
I really prefer lives way of doing this, you record a few passes and then extend the clip to view the passes.
You can then "Ctrl e" each pass and put them on separate tracks if needed.
If this work flow is not for you then just go with another daw.


I totally understand what you mean but correct me if I'm wrong here- Comping allows you to select the best portions of different takes and then consolidate those portions into one "perfect" take. Is this possible with the method you described above? Just curious...like I said I'm new to Live.

Here is an example of comping in Reason 6

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... DUoc#t=28s
No you cant do this in Live. The method Im talking about is almost exactly the same as the one Angtrom posted except I start off in arrange view and record with the loop brace turned on.
Like Angtrom said, after doing it this way for so long other methods have become less intuitive for me.
If they did add a traditional comping method I hope they would also have the option to reverting back to the way it is now.
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crumhorn
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Re: Ableton 9: No Comping Features

Post by crumhorn » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:32 pm

There is so much noise in this thread that I feel the need to say this again:

Try Session View Clips in Legato Mode with No Launch Quanization.
"The banjo is the perfect instrument for the antisocial."

(Allow me to plug my guitar scale visualiser thingy - www.fretlearner.com)

d.reamonn
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Re: Ableton 9: No Comping Features

Post by d.reamonn » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:44 pm

crumhorn wrote:There is so much noise in this thread that I feel the need to say this again:

Try Session View Clips in Legato Mode with No Launch Quanization.
All done in one take, video included: http://youtu.be/yzC4hFK5P3g

SpeedKing
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Re: Ableton 9: No Comping Features

Post by SpeedKing » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:53 pm

hmj wrote:
SpeedKing wrote:
hmj wrote: THERE IS NO MORE PROGRAMMING TALENT AT ABLETON, NONE OF THE FEATURES WE ARE REQUESTING HERE WILL COME TO FRUITION TILL AT LEAST VERSION 10...

Gerhard Behles (Abletons CEO) has gone on record saying that he believes the best way to make the program better is to REMOVE features -

http://www.sonicstate.com/news/2007/10/ ... on-live-7/

That may be true from time to time and I love Abletons simplicity but that's also an excuse to not fill in the gaps. No tab to transients, PDC, Sample accurate arrange waveforms, sub bar audio editing? Some heavy stuff missing.

Look at how advanced Studio One is, how advanced BitWig is. It's because of programmers, Ableton lost theirs to BitWig and it's CEO thinks adding features makes the program worst. We're in for a long and frustrating experience. Our best bet as users is to make the most out of what the old BitWig guys created and become masters of work arounds.
Just searching and looking back at your post history (because you seem like a classic troll), two things are obvious. You actually do use Live, and you're also one of the most smug and annoying posters on this forum, who remains staunchly negative in pretty much any and every situation/thread. You're exactly the type of person that makes forums worse. It's not that you don't have valid opinions, and experience, but you will only use those opinions to make consistent negativity.

Now, if you're going to say "I'm just saying these things because I want Ableton to be a better product", then you're either (option 1) lying, (option 2) telling the truth, but maybe you just enjoy negativity or (option 3) very bad at figuring out the chain of events necessary to reach an end goal (such as wanting Ableton to be a better product).

I don't have anything to add to this thread, but I just wanted to point that out.
If anything I said was actually false you would have a point but you don't. YOU are just trolling my post with emotional jibber jabber. Ableton is missing these features, this forum exist for users to communicate with the company about what we think is important. If none of these features are important to you then carry on with your day, you're contributing nothing to this conversation troll.
Well, once you declared "THERE IS NO MORE PROGRAMMING TALENT AT ABLETON", you actually lost your intra-post credibility. The only thing that would've made it better is if you followed that statement with a "!!!@#1!@!", but were being serious. As I said, it's not that you don't use Ableton, and it's obvious (to me) that you know a lot more about the program than I do. The issue is that your professions of knowledge are clouded out by the fact that you act like a spoiled and annoyingly angsty kid. As I said, maybe the issue is just that you think the way to get people to respect or pay attention to your opinions is by shouting them while lacing them with negativity. And maybe that's the way it is on Twitter, but it's not how your opinions get heard or regarded in real life.

EDIT: Oh, and by the way, I would absolutely love a comping feature in Session View (1st) or Arrangement View (2nd). I have workarounds that I have to use, but having this feature built in would save time and headaches, and it definitely seems like something that should be built in.

hmj
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Re: Ableton 9: No Comping Features

Post by hmj » Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:01 pm

I respect all your opinions but I don't necessarily care. This is about Track Comping and why it's taking Ableton so long to do it - no programming talent. I'm interested in insights on that.

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