Ableton 9: A message to HQ and the Community

Discussion of music production, audio, equipment and any related topics, either with or without Ableton Live
BATCOP
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Re: Ableton 9: A message to HQ and the Community

Post by BATCOP » Fri Dec 07, 2012 2:11 pm

Dragonbreath wrote:I think its fair to say that we all enjoy Ableton. Why would be loosing our time it if we didnt get some joy or benefit from it?

I think the recent launch of Ableton 9 has been overdue and paradoxically a sudden surprise!

Its seems to me as this whole launch has been premature.

The video seems to have leaked, removed, no communication from Ableton, and then Bam! Full launch, with poorly polished, Apple inspired key not. Completely different approach, new website, slashed and mutilated forum. Lets face it with thrilled with the idea of a long awaited Live 9, but were kinda put put off by the face of it, happy of getting long awaited features (like session automation, etc.), but disconcerted by lack of attention to other much needed features (like dual screen support, etc.).

We wanna jump on, but were put off by the recent lack of feedback on the forums.

The way I see it. The video leaked, Ableton refused to admit their mistake and they push on foward. If you repeat the same mistake enough time, it becomes part of the song. The audience doesnt know the difference. But what Ableton seems to have forgotten, were not the audience, were band members. Were as much as part of the creative process as your are. Without user support, there is sound coming out of the speakers. There is no speaker. We buy Ableton because of what it allows us to bring to the audience. Ableton is mystical in the eyes of those who dont understand it, not in the hands of those who use it.

Ableton should admit its faults. Its users would appreciate them alot more from it. I think they being criticized too much and are afraid of more, but alot of it nagging has been about the lack of transparence. Lets face it most of us hate the new look of the website, are unimpressed with the covering up of the forums. Whats this beige color. I loved the old scheme and the old. The logo is like the rest of the marketing. Very square and flat, exactly like the sound that ableton is accused of having. Take of all this make up, this "fond de teint". Give us back the nice clean and concise ableton that we use to love.

Show use live as it should be Alive!
Peel of this dead facade...
The launch was premature, we all know.
Please admit it.

Unless im wrong.

Then fire your marketing team, cause they will drive you into the ground!

Hello
Is anybody still in there?

:D
do you really believe after several years of developping a much-expected update, ableton would put a video online "by mistake" and then would have to announce the new version, organise a big press event in berlin, change their website in the last minute?

you must be pretty naive!
8O 8O

and by the way, i think the marketing team actually pwned you!

Szuumm
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Re: Ableton 9: A message to HQ and the Community

Post by Szuumm » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:13 pm

Actually, I disagree... making people think they've found out top-secret information they shouldn't know about is a great way to create buzz & get people talking about your product.

BATCOP
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Joined: Wed Sep 06, 2006 2:14 pm

Re: Ableton 9: A message to HQ and the Community

Post by BATCOP » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:13 pm

funken wrote:
BATCOP wrote:
do you really believe after several years of developping a much-expected update, ableton would put a video online "by mistake" and then would have to announce the new version, organise a big press event in berlin, change their website in the last minute?

you must be pretty naive!
8O 8O

and by the way, i think the marketing team actually pwned you!
It was a mistake. I just explained, I was asked to take it down. Pretend mistakes don't sound like a great marketing strategy.
i guess they had to make people think it was *really* a leak.
that's how you create the buzz.
remember how the vocoder *leaked* shortly before the L8 announcement?

anyhow, leak or not leak, i believe that the announcement and release was planned long ago. you don't organise such a press conference in a rush.

and back to the OP: what do you want exactly? to postpone the release and wait 2 more years until all your wishes have been implemented?
i personally think this release is alright. maybe not up to our expectations, but well, it's still a step forward.
and as for forum and logo aesthetics, i don't give a damn. that won't stop me from making music.
a little bit of change is not bad sometimes, some people like it, some don't. that's life.

pencilrocket
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Joined: Tue Jun 15, 2010 10:46 am

Re: Ableton 9: A message to HQ and the Community

Post by pencilrocket » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:17 pm

fishmonkey wrote: that is because Ableton does now moderate the forum. over the top aggressive posters don't last long any more.
yea, 'Moist Pants' thread is one of the thread got locked. It was aggressive :lol:
Image

JuanSOLO
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Location: Shreveport LA, sometimes Dallas/Ft Worth TX

Re: Ableton 9: A message to HQ and the Community

Post by JuanSOLO » Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:19 pm

3+ years of tight lips about Live 9, and suddenly a video is up by mistake?
Are you saying someone accidently forgot to choose the privacy settings on YouTube?

yeah right.

premature?, it's right on time.
After years, I expected Live 9 to reveal more than just SessionAutomation recording, and a new EQ8.
Granted I appreciate how well they work, but it seems overdue, and expected, so it kinda takes away the power of it's reveal.

There's lots of little improvements that could be made, and create huge workflow advantages, but it seems like those things fall on deaf ears.

I feel like the "leaked" marketing shows how dated Ableton has become.
Ableton already has a buzz, and if they wanted to capitalize on it they would have used those 3 silent years to create a mind blowing release.

H20nly
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Re: Ableton 9: A message to HQ and the Community

Post by H20nly » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:15 pm

BATCOP wrote:and back to the OP: what do you want exactly? to postpone the release and wait 2 more years until all your wishes have been implemented?
this does appear to be the kind of thing that people want/expect.
they just, want it now.
that's why it's so easy to laugh at them.

people come on the forum demanding that their needs be met. they fuss, threaten, and take offense about anything posted that falls short of backing up their stance. then, they get even more angry when they're not taken all that seriously by EVERYONE the second, third, fourth, fifth time they re-post their stance... as though throwing some more anger on it will change anything.

instead of debating about what we have and how best to use it.... many prefer to debate about what others have and they do not and, of course, their personal expectations of Live and Ableton as it pertains specifically to their wants and needs... damn the rest!

so to continue the bar analogy from early.... don't come to the pub with your fists all balled up if you're not ready to fight, because you might have to.
Last edited by H20nly on Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

justchris86
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Re: Ableton 9: A message to HQ and the Community

Post by justchris86 » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:18 pm

hahaha morbid! your the man. As for this topic.... YAWN
"Do not quote or read this text"

https://soundcloud.com/modernmaestros

beats me
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Re: Ableton 9: A message to HQ and the Community

Post by beats me » Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:50 pm

I realize we live in the world of Twitter and Facebook, but I’m pretty damn tired of people thinking everybody and entity needs to post their every move and passing thought to the public. The sense of entitlement to know everything and opine about it is obnoxious.

There’s already not enough hours in the day to enjoy and explore things you already have access to. If you can’t do that then your priorities are messed up, but I also realize this a common side effect of the society we live in. 10 minutes after you get something it’s already tired and obsolete in your head....because somebody is already posting about their great new concept.

Machinesworking
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Re: Ableton 9: A message to HQ and the Community

Post by Machinesworking » Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:42 pm

oddstep wrote: yeah guilty as charged - the forum was better 3-4 years back though; better useful post : twatrant ratio... y'know stuff like user scripts, ideas on device design - the only thing that's been good recently is the max subforum and the occasional threads on music theory. I see the forum as a social space where ideas and passions can be shared.. a bit like a bar - currently every other table in the bar has someone shouting about how the tools they use are rubbish and that no one listens to them. If this was a real bar I would go somewhere else - maybe I should check out another forum.
So, 3-4 years ago was about the time that moderation stepped up, and the Lounge was split off etc. Essentially the conclusion one could draw is that the less moderated and formatted, the more likely people are encouraged to post good stuff. Get em drunk first and they'll talk. :x

Machinesworking
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Re: Ableton 9: A message to HQ and the Community

Post by Machinesworking » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:02 pm

funken wrote:
Szuumm wrote:Actually, I disagree... making people think they've found out top-secret information they shouldn't know about is a great way to create buzz & get people talking about your product.
anythings possible but i doubt it.
I don't know about that. Everything, from the new attention to their logo and branding, to the Steve Jobs like Gerhard Behles Live 9 / Push preview event, to the "leaked" video. All of it points to Apple marketing and an either conscious or subconscious move towards emulating their success etc.

Though branding wise I think they're off, Apple more or less stuck with the same design which seemed silly at first and is now ubiquitous.

Machinesworking
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Re: Ableton 9: A message to HQ and the Community

Post by Machinesworking » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:40 pm

funken wrote: Perhaps it was leaked on purpose by someone's subconscious.
Lol sure, or perhaps just like Apple it will be rigorously denied as an intentional leak, heads will roll etc.
Yet somehow it helps generate publicity, who would have thought?

Tone Deft
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Re: Ableton 9: A message to HQ and the Community

Post by Tone Deft » Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:43 pm

given their new totally f-ed up web design et al. it could have been their design fuckwits' attempt at a viral ad campaign. with all the tension and speculation they had a shot at being all dramatical.

tphtphtphtphtphtphtphtphtphtphtphtphtphtphtphtphtphtzzzzzzzzzzzzttttt!!!!
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H20nly
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Re: Ableton 9: A message to HQ and the Community

Post by H20nly » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:15 pm

Machinesworking wrote:Everything, from the new attention to their logo and branding, to the Steve Jobs like Gerhard Behles Live 9 / Push preview event, to the "leaked" video. All of it points to Apple marketing and an either conscious or subconscious move towards emulating their success etc.

Though branding wise I think they're off, Apple more or less stuck with the same design which seemed silly at first and is now ubiquitous.
i read this post a couple of hours ago. at that point i was pretty much in full agreement. since then, i went home (for lunch) and installed the Live 9 demo. when i did, i launched the app and instantly thought of two things:

First - wow.. the perfectly square redish-orange splash screen and plain grey square launcher with the word Live in plain white sans serif font remind me of the styling of Windows 8
Second - MW's post about Apple/Ableton...

after that i thought about the Live website/forum... with the exception of the flesh tone coloring the rest of the site is reminiscent of where Microsoft is going with their new designs. this can already be seen in the world with the Windows phone and Windows 8 RT tablets and the beta i've used of Server 2012. on the Ableton side the buttons for joining the beta, for downloading the software, etc. etc. are all this flat matte finish type colored square or rectangle (in this case blue) with no outlines, bevels, drop shadows, gloss or any of the other elements commonly seen in GUI and web design.

i saw another example of this the other day during a conference call at work with ESET Antivirus. they had a tool that was just updated to a 3.0 rev and the design was the same... a flat matte dark grey background with a "close window" type button in the upper right corner that was a red square and also with no fills, thrills, or extras just a white "X" right in the middle.

it seems that this minimalist approach is the new thing... albeit that Ableton have chosen to go with this sex-toy coloration while the others have stayed within a more standard RGB color wheel. for Ableton the flat matte finish is nothing new, but the corners were all rounded... and have since been squared off. so while the marketing may be looking a lot like Apple the design is looking a lot like Microsoft IMO.

Machinesworking
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Re: Ableton 9: A message to HQ and the Community

Post by Machinesworking » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:23 pm

H20nly wrote:for Ableton the flat matte finish is nothing new, but the corners were all rounded... and have since been squared off. so while the marketing may be looking a lot like Apple the design is looking a lot like Microsoft IMO.
Great observation, and sad as well.
Ableton were doing better when they were emulating Atari's design IMO.

H20nly
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Re: Ableton 9: A message to HQ and the Community

Post by H20nly » Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:26 pm

i really liked the design of Live and the forum... i always thought it was great/awesome/cool/tits (pick one)... the minimalism and same rounded corners i mentioned on the black, white and gray seemed timeless. i could probably learn to like the site and forum again if they would ditch the background color and go with something that looks less like processed meat.

*shrugs*

i'm looking forward to tinkering with the beta tonight. 8)

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